Will Kohli and Smith return to their former glory?

[_00_deathscar]

I won't say you are wrong but despite the spicier tracks I do notice a drop in test batsmen quality infact more then SENA it's the test batting in subcont tests that have really fallen off the cliff. I see people talking about Mahela inflated stats but believe me even a 45 Yr old current Mahela would run circles around some today batsmen while batting on Asian pitches.

Nah he'd get eaten alive by the pace attacks out there today. He might do fine on subcontinent pitches (and at best he'd just maintain) but his away stats would be even more embarassing than they were before.

 

[Spark]

He would have issues in the subcontinent too. At home he might (might) be okay but Bumrah, Shami and co are an order of magnitude above any attack he faced from India in his career, and Pakistan aren't shabby these days either.

And it's not just him. Ian Bell wouldn't be averaging mid-40s, Clarke wouldn't be pushing 50 etc etc. That's not to say they wouldn't be in the upper tier of Test batsmen going around and the respective sides wouldn't pick them today in a heartbeat, but their stats wouldn't be anywhere near as impressive as they ended up. It's just a much, much more difficult era to bat in right now compared to the late 00s/early 10s and anyone who can consistently manage a high 30s average deserves respect, let alone 50.

 

[Flem274*]

He would have issues in the subcontinent too. At home he might (might) be okay but Bumrah, Shami and co are an order of magnitude above any attack he faced from India in his career, and Pakistan aren't shabby these days either.

And it's not just him. Ian Bell wouldn't be averaging mid-40s, Clarke wouldn't be pushing 50 etc etc. That's not to say they wouldn't be in the upper tier of Test batsmen going around and the respective sides wouldn't pick them today in a heartbeat, but their stats wouldn't be anywhere near as impressive as they ended up. It's just a much, much more difficult era to bat in right now compared to the late 00s/early 10s and anyone who can consistently manage a high 30s average deserves respect, let alone 50.

Disagree on Clarke, the man could tap into God sometimes, but your overall point is bang on.

Only Sri Lanka and Bangladesh have below average attacks, and both of those sides can dial it up with no warning (Bangers the other day ofc, and Sri Lanka in SA and at home).

Everyone else is stacked with some of their best talent ever, Pakistan and WI excepted (though Shaheen and Holder as a bowling allrounder will probably push for their ATG side spots once retired).

 

[honestbharani]

Disagree on Clarke, the man could tap into God sometimes, but your overall point is bang on.

Only Sri Lanka and Bangladesh have below average attacks, and both of those sides can dial it up with no warning (Bangers the other day ofc, and Sri Lanka in SA and at home).

Everyone else is stacked with some of their best talent ever, Pakistan and WI excepted (though Shaheen and Holder as a bowling allrounder will probably push for their ATG side spots once retired).

Sri Lanka have very promising attack and team IMO. It depends if SLC will let them achieve their potential but their current side has a lot of talent, esp. among the bowlers and allrounders which seems to be where games are won these days.

 

[OverratedSanity]

He would have issues in the subcontinent too. At home he might (might) be okay but Bumrah, Shami and co are an order of magnitude above any attack he faced from India in his career, and Pakistan aren't shabby these days either.

And it's not just him. Ian Bell wouldn't be averaging mid-40s, Clarke wouldn't be pushing 50 etc etc. That's not to say they wouldn't be in the upper tier of Test batsmen going around and the respective sides wouldn't pick them today in a heartbeat, but their stats wouldn't be anywhere near as impressive as they ended up. It's just a much, much more difficult era to bat in right now compared to the late 00s/early 10s and anyone who can consistently manage a high 30s average deserves respect, let alone 50.

Even with the newly overpowered pace attacks, a lot of players were still putting up great numbers because the decks were mostly good for batting. There has been a massive difference in the average pitch that you can expect in the last 2-3 years. Rank turners in India used to be sporadic, they feel pretty common now, England's pitches are seaming more than ever, ****ing Australia has even recently given in to the new pitch doctrine. IT's tough going for sure. I think we can see a return to heavy scoring even with these great attacks if the pitches get back to mostly roads.

 

[Spark]

Even with the newly overpowered pace attacks, a lot of players were still putting up great numbers because the decks were mostly good for batting. There has been a massive difference in the average pitch that you can expect in the last 2-3 years. Rank turners in India used to be sporadic, they feel pretty common now, England's pitches are seaming more than ever, ****ing Australia has even recently given in to the new pitch doctrine. IT's tough going for sure. I think we can see a return to heavy scoring even with these great attacks if the pitches get back to mostly roads.

Yeah like there have been a lot of decks in the last month alone where I've gone "250 isn't a bad first innings score on this". But by definition that means the par batting average is 25!

We are definitely entering a period where anyone who can put up solid 35+ averages without being excessively rocks-or-diamonds should be considered a reliable long-term top order batsman.

 

[Spark]

Disagree on Clarke, the man could tap into God sometimes, but your overall point is bang on.

Peak Clarke unfortunately only lasted two years or so before his back disintegrated for good, otherwise he was a bit too flaky against seam movement to be really reliable. Still probably one of the best five or six batsmen in the world obviously but he's not averaging 50.

 

[Kirkut]

Kohli should unleash his frustration and smash a 300 in the final 5th test to be played in England.

 

[Daemon]

I think its a mix of the 2010s being the first generation of players who have had to train for T20s from their teenage, so the first T20 technique bred generation of players and the immensely bowling friendly pitches across the world as well as some of our unconscious eye-test bias.

It’s also this imo.

We have to appreciate that training has become increasingly format specific.

Packed schedules and switching between formats also don’t give you any time to work on aspects of your game that need it.

Yes it impacts bowlers too but it’s easier to adjust, generally speaking.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Peak Clarke unfortunately only lasted two years or so before his back disintegrated for good, otherwise he was a bit too flaky against seam movement to be really reliable. Still probably one of the best five or six batsmen in the world obviously but he's not averaging 50.

No more than any other batsman, ever IMO. His 161* in SA on a minefield sticks in the memory.

 

[Spark]

No more than any other batsman, ever IMO. His 161* in SA on a minefield sticks in the memory.

Peak Clarke definitely would have thrived regardless in this era; it's more that that was only one period of his career.

 

[subshakerz]

No more than any other batsman, ever IMO. His 161* in SA on a minefield sticks in the memory.

His 151 in SA a few years earlier was even better.

 

[Raz0r6ack]

2017-Present is one of the harder eras for batting? Only 5 batsmen have averaged 50: Kohli, Smith, Williamson, Rohit Sharma and Labuchagne.

https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?class=1;filter=advanced;orderby=batting_average;qualmin1=20;qualval1=innings;spanmin1=01+Jan+2017;spanval1=span;template=results;type=batting

 

[Jfry]

I'd say that most of Smith's fall has been conversion errors; up until the 2019-20 home season he averaged 99 when passing 20, since then that has fallen to 65. The actual proportion of innings where he gets starts suffered a much less major fall. There was a period there in which he was extremely bankable when he got a start and that's not the case anymore.

 

[subshakerz]

The curious case of Steven Smith

Trouble against the short ball? Twiddling Thumbs? Slow reflexes? There is no one pattern that explains his form

www.espncricinfo.com

 

[Tom Flint]

Smith average dropped below 60 now, something I didn't see happening this quickly. Marnus also at 56. We got beat 4 nil and their 2 best bats didn't even play that well! ?

 

[Lillian Thomson]

Some people were making ridiculous predictions for Smith during the Ashes in England. Like he was a machine guaranteed to churn out three or four centuries a series. He’s made only one century in 14 Tests since. I actually thought he looked closest to his best during his 60 odd. He’s still young enough to get his form back (unless at 32 his hand/eye has gone - tee hee).

 

[Tom Flint]

No his class hasn't gone and he is still great and will score lots of runs in future. But he is probably on his way down to his true position closer to the 2nd tier pack of kallis sobers Sachin lara sanga kane ponting ect than out on his own in 2nd spot behind bradman

 

[Flem274*]

Smith has 4 odd years left and Aus play like 10 tests a year. 40 tests is more than enough time for a second wind.

 

[GotSpin]

I'd say that most of Smith's fall has been conversion errors; up until the 2019-20 home season he averaged 99 when passing 20, since then that has fallen to 65. The actual proportion of innings where he gets starts suffered a much less major fall. There was a period there in which he was extremely bankable when he got a start and that's not the case anymore.

Ponting had the same issue. Except he averaged 60 for 100 tests before reaching this point