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Who really is the worst player to play for England since 1990?

Who really is the worst player to play Tests for England since 1990?

  • Wayne Larkins

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • David Capel

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Neil Williams

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Derek Pringle

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Dermot Reeve

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Mike Gatting

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Paul Jarvis

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • John Emburey

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Neil Foster

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Mike Watkinson

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • James Ormond

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Geraint Jones

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Liam Plunkett

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    27
  • Poll closed .

GIMH

Norwood's on Fire
The problem with a poll like this Richard is you are asking us to vote based on your opinions, it kind of renders a poll pointless
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
Basically I'm saying "who d'you reckon's the worst out of this lot", then giving my reasons why I think various players brought-up aren't as bad as anyone on said list.

I've already noted that there's 3 or 4 who I'd take off if I were to write this list again.
 

Prince EWS

Global Moderator
The problem with a poll like this Richard is you are asking us to vote based on your opinions, it kind of renders a poll pointless
He's done polls like this before IIRC. He includes who he believes to be the most worthy candidates rather than who he actually thinks people will vote for, which isn't how a poll should work. I'm sure he realised more people would want to vote for Salisbury than Botham for example.
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
Equally I'm sure a great many people, realising how outstanding Botham was in the 1970s and early-1980s, don't realise just how bad he was in the 1990s when he was recalled. I very vaguely recall thinking "who on Earth's this waste of space?" when I started watching, and Dad (who absolutely idolises Botham) took me through how brilliant he once was and how sad it was to see this abomination which he had become still being shown to the audiences of the cricket World when he should've been whacking tennis-balls on the beach by then.

I cannot believe there has been a player who, at Test level, has been both as brilliant as Botham was for his first 4 years and as woeful as for his last couple.

Ian Salisbury may indeed have been worse as a Test player but he damn sure was a better cricketer than he showed at Test level; Botham by that time wasn't.
 

zaremba

Cricketer Of The Year
While Richard is right that Botham was a shadow of his former self, he was still capable of the odd performance - I was at the SCG in the 92 World Cup to see him dispose of our criminally-challenged cousins for one last time
 

Prince EWS

Global Moderator
Equally I'm sure a great many people, realising how outstanding Botham was in the 1970s and early-1980s, don't realise just how bad he was in the 1990s when he was recalled. I very vaguely recall thinking "who on Earth's this waste of space?" when I started watching, and Dad (who absolutely idolises Botham) took me through how brilliant he once was and how sad it was to see this abomination which he had become still being shown to the audiences of the cricket World when he should've been whacking tennis-balls on the beach by then.

I cannot believe there has been a player who, at Test level, has been both as brilliant as Botham was for his first 4 years and as woeful as for his last couple.

Ian Salisbury may indeed have been worse as a Test player but he damn sure was a better cricketer than he showed at Test level; Botham by that time wasn't.
I actually agree, but whether it's true or not doesn't actually matter. When setting the poll options you should try to ensure they aren't biased by your opinion. It doesn't matter if Botham's a more worthy poll option in your opinion or not - the poll options should be set out with what people are likely to vote for in mind, not what you'd like them to vote for.
 

GIMH

Norwood's on Fire
Basically I'm saying "who d'you reckon's the worst out of this lot", then giving my reasons why I think various players brought-up aren't as bad as anyone on said list.

I've already noted that there's 3 or 4 who I'd take off if I were to write this list again.
Fair enough, but the title asks us who is the worst player to play for England in the 90s
 

BoyBrumby

Englishman
When Beefy was recalled for the 5th test versus the Windies in 1991 it was off the back of a pretty decent season. He scored 785 runs @ 43.61 & took 44 wickets @ 24.47. Any all-rounder would be pleased with those returns and one with Both's record of service was always going to feature in the selectors' discussions.
 

Langeveldt

Soutie
Rikki Clarke and Schofield would have been options, but Clarke can hold a bat, as can Schofield.. Saj Mahmood initially impressed me when he first played county cricket, but for a few years I don't think I've ever seen a poorer specialist bowler.. It makes me ill that people can play international cricket based on his level of performance, and then SA churn out a load of tripe that loses to it.. Incredible.. So yeah my vote goes to Mahmood

Darren Pattinson, one of the few people to have played international cricket never having not been the best bowler in each one of their outings.. :)
 
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Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
While Richard is right that Botham was a shadow of his former self, he was still capable of the odd performance - I was at the SCG in the 92 World Cup to see him dispose of our criminally-challenged cousins for one last time
ODIs and Tests are different matters. In the ODI format a talented player - whose talents will in some respects never dim - has more scope to just briefly recapture some spark and make a real impact on a match.
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
I actually agree, but whether it's true or not doesn't actually matter. When setting the poll options you should try to ensure they aren't biased by your opinion. It doesn't matter if Botham's a more worthy poll option in your opinion or not - the poll options should be set out with what people are likely to vote for in mind, not what you'd like them to vote for.
I've set-out the criteria pretty obviously TBH. I said who is the worst cricketer to play for England in this time; not whose Test performances have been the worst. I have indeed acknowledged that several of those present are probably erroneously so.

I consider that it does not constitute "bias by my opinion", rather "taking account of things not everyone might immediately consider" to state that Salisbury, Irani etc. were in fact quite considerably better cricketers than the likes of Watkinson, Mahmood etc. regardless of the fact that their Test performances were every bit as bad and sometimes worse.

I don't want to give people the option to vote for something that doesn't fit the criteria I'm asking votes to be based on.
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
Fair enough, but the title asks us who is the worst player to play for England in the 90s
Well, no - since 1990, not in the 1990s (ie, in the 1990s and 2000s). Not "who performed worst having been picked for England since 1990"; that's as obvious as "which batsman performed best in cricket history?"

Maybe time for another thread - and Salisbury won't be an option because he'd be such an obvious winner if he was.
 

zaremba

Cricketer Of The Year
When Beefy was recalled for the 5th test versus the Windies in 1991 it was off the back of a pretty decent season. He scored 785 runs @ 43.61 & took 44 wickets @ 24.47. Any all-rounder would be pleased with those returns and one with Both's record of service was always going to feature in the selectors' discussions.
Blimey, I hadn't realised that. Great stat work Brumby
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
Yet even that's a rather disingenious version of events. Truth is Botham had a couple of excellent games at the start of 1991, then missed one-and-a-half months with injury and clearly lacked proper full fitness even after he returned (almost never appeared in consecutive rounds). Now, in one of those early games he scored 161 against the West Indian tourists (the might of the attack featuring Patrick Patterson, Ian Allen, Hamish Anthony, Courtney Walsh and Phil Simmons) but thereafter mustered just 4 half-centuries, with a top-score of 81. In the last 9 of his 11 games he averaged a mere 26.5 overs per game (ie, 13 per innings). He was not remotely in a fit state for top-level cricket, wasn't really performing that well at all, and any decent set of selectors could and would have realised this. Instead past glories were given far too much consideration.
 

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