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who are the genuine 'quicks'?????

anzac

International Debutant
does anyone have a definative indication as to the genuine 'quicks' in the game at the moment or some universal scale for determining the respective categories - fast / fast med / med fast / med / slow etc??????

I have been looking at the player data bases on Cricinfo for the test nations and I feel that there are some anomalies / inconsistancies. e.g. - for Zimbabwe Olonga & Brent are described as 'fast' bowlers, whereas Blignaut is shown as being 'medium fast' - in the match v NZ he was getting into the high 140ks, which puts him over 90mph & a 'quick' IMO, whereas the other two have not been near this pace for a couple of seasons. Similarly the likes of Waqar & Wasim are still desribed as 'fast', but their pace is a good 10ks slower than this - mid 130s - low 140s max.

I also note that some data bases use 'fast med' whereas others will use 'med fast' - to me these are 2 different paces. As the player info is provided by their respective home Boards, is there any other 'neutral' data base that provides a standard description / categorisation?????? Or is there a database available that will give bowlers speeds during the match as we are seeing in the WC - fastest, slowest & average deliveries?????

I know I have asked something similar to this when I first arrived -but I did not get any responses that I know of......

:)
 

R_Powell_fan

U19 Captain
Well I've always thought about ALL of what you said..... I've reached some conclusions......

*Most players, ex-players are pretty lax towards the definitions Medium-Fast, Fast-Medium, but nearly everbody agrees that genuine FAST bowlers have to bowl consistently over 140-145 kph....

*Med-Fast and Fast-Med are often taken to mean the same thing thus people sometimes confuse them and call for e.g. Javagal Srinath Med-Fast whereas he really is Fast-Medium...

*So In my mind (opinion) I always think that:

^Fast : Over 142-144 kph
^Fast-Medium (Means bowler's speed is usually closer to being FAST but can sometimes be closer to medium) : 134- 142 kph
^Med-Fast (bowler is usually closer to the MEDIUM end but sometimes is closer to fast): 128-135 kph
^Medium: 112-128 kph

*These ratings are to represent the average speed which is why Nehra I consider Med-Fast although in a series of matches he is Fast-Med but then again thats an opinion....same for Adams.
The stats you view at cricketinfo are like archives....if somebody wanted to research Wasim Akram or Waqar Younis or Allan Donald 15 yrs from now and he hadn't lived in the same era it would be unfair to say they were Fast-Medium because they were at a large span of their time 'FAST'
 

Bazza

International 12th Man
It's difficult to categorise with such certainty, but I would say:

Fast - 90mph+
Fast-med - 85-90
Med-fast - 75-85
Medium - 60-75
Slow - 60-

Or something like that. That is for consistent deliveries.

So not many people will be fast, despite the fact plenty CAN bowl at 90+.

McGrath would almost be med-fast actually, but most pace bowlers would fit into fast-med.
 

Simon

Request Your Custom Title Now!
fast - Lee/Shoaib/Bond
fast medium - Bichel/Adams/Drakes
medium fast - Wasim/McGrath/Waqar
medium - Irani/ and basically any part timers like Astle etc...

obviously they are just a few examples of who would fit into each category.
People like Gillespie would fit into a category between fast and fast medium.
 

Rik

Cricketer Of The Year
broncoman said:
fast - Lee/Shoaib/Bond
fast medium - Bichel/Adams/Drakes
medium fast - Wasim/McGrath/Waqar
medium - Irani/ and basically any part timers like Astle etc...

obviously they are just a few examples of who would fit into each category.
People like Gillespie would fit into a category between fast and fast medium.
Errrm, Wasim's hardly medium-fast. He was very quick and even now isn't very slow...
 

Simon

Request Your Custom Title Now!
but id hardly say wasim is as quick as the guys i put in fast medium. Wasim just gets people out with his swing now.
10 years ago i would have obivously put him as out and out fast.
 

Rik

Cricketer Of The Year
broncoman said:
but id hardly say wasim is as quick as the guys i put in fast medium. Wasim just gets people out with his swing now.
10 years ago i would have obivously put him as out and out fast.
Well I saw him bowl not that long ago and he still looked pretty quick. Med-Fast is Domanic Cork speed (Eddie would know more about this) and Wasim is nowhere near that slow.
 

Tim

Cricketer Of The Year
Fast:

Lee, Shoaib, Bond, Lawson

Fast/Medium:

Gillespie, Ntini, Fernando

Medium/Fast:

McGrath, Pollock, Kallis

Medium: Irani, Astle, Collingwood etc
 

krkode

State Captain
I agree with R_Powell_Fan on this one about the speeds. In terms of names, this is how I consider it.

Given the current speeds

Fast: Lee, Akhtar...

Fast-Medium: Waqar, Wasim, Srinath, Zaheer Khan, McGrath, Bond, Donald, Pollock, Caddick...

Medium-Fast: Nehra, Vaas...

Medium: Ganguly, Astle, Irani

I also tend to notice run ups - Run ups of most of the fast medium and fast bowlers are relatively longer than the rest's. I would definitely say Wasim, Waqar, Donald and Pollock could be called "fast" but that was a while ago.
 

anzac

International Debutant
thanx team - it seems we are basically all in agreement re the definitions

the next part of the equation - is there a relevant 'neutral' data base available that uses uniform & current descriptions to classify the players,

or failing that is there a data base that gives the bowling performances re fastest, slowest & average speeds etc, even if I have to look at each match to get this??????

:)
 

shaka

International Regular
andre adams bowls in the 140's and so does gillespie which means they are close to being considered "quicks"
 

Langeveldt

Soutie
anzac said:
thanx team - it seems we are basically all in agreement re the definitions

the next part of the equation - is there a relevant 'neutral' data base available that uses uniform & current descriptions to classify the players,

or failing that is there a data base that gives the bowling performances re fastest, slowest & average speeds etc, even if I have to look at each match to get this??????

:)

I dont think there is an official guide to their paces, its just done by eye, which I think is the best way...

When I saw Donald he looked distinctly Medium-Fast in the world cup...

Keep an eye on some South Africans like Mfuneko Ngam (serious injury but very quick) and Mornantau Hayward (off to Worcestershire)...Also Monde Zondeki looks fast..
 

full_length

U19 Vice-Captain
SA probably have the best prospects for throwing serious pace merchants on to the scene.
If Ngam and Hayward get it going, they can pick a pace battery of Pollock, Ntini, Ngam, Hayward, Zodenki, and that's serious pace ('cept for Pollock). They and Pakistan could probably be the quickest attack in a couple of years.

I think "fast" is > 150.
That means from the current bunch it's only Shoiab, Lee, Bond and Lawson. (Harmison and Jones may join the club if picked.)

The other criteria are too blurred. *Maybe*,
142-150= fast medium
135-142 = medium fast
120-135 = medium

From players currently playing (plus those in and out..), Klusener, Kallis, Wasim, Waqar, Srinath, Donald, Gough have all been fast men by the above criteria.. and all have dropped down to fast medium. Some even further down to medium fast though every one of these guys bar Klusener can get the odd delivery to go at serious pace.
 

marc71178

Eyes not spreadsheets
Hayward has all but given up his South African career - it's be a major shock if he represented them again!
 

warrioryohannan

U19 Cricketer
150 KMP and above = Express pacemen... Akhter,Lee,Bond

145kph(90mph) to 150kph (Genuine Speedsters)......Ngam, Zaheer Khan, Fernando,Sami.

140kph to 145kph (Qualified Fast Men).....Nixon Mclean, A Nehra, Bicheal
 

yohanna

Banned
Langeveldt said:
Apart from Mohammad Sami, which young speedsters have Pakistan got coming through?

Umar Gul, a highly talented genuine fast bowler, would get a chance in an International match soon.

Najaf Shah, perhaps the best left arm fast bowler in Pakistan.

Abdul Rauf, the most successful pacer at domestic level.

Zahid, he has recovered from injury which kept him out for 2 years from International cricket.

There are some others, but i think the above four will get a chance to play for Pakistan sooner or later!
 

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