Which of these 90s English no rounders was your favourite?

[TheJediBrah]

I would love to live in an alternate world where Chris Lewis was a successful Test all-rounder.

Funny thing is, whilst England had a plethora of all-rounders in the mid to late 90's, Australia had almost none.

Off the top of my head I can think of Moody, Julian & Harvey (plus Bevan, sort of). Probably someone obvious I'm missing here.

Does anyone here rate, say, Cork or White, higher than said Aussie all-rounders?

Andrew Symonds could lay claim to being a genuine all-rounder at times.

When you look at the greatest teams in the history of the game, they tend to have not even bothered with all-rounders. Just great batsmen and bowlers. I wonder if there's something to that.

 

[SillyCowCorner1]

Andrew Symonds was in the same mould of Allrounder of (say) Tendulkar.

 

[a massive zebra]

When you look at the greatest teams in the history of the game, they tend to have not even bothered with all-rounders. Just great batsmen and bowlers. I wonder if there's something to that.

That is only really true if you look at the great sides of the last 40 years.

Prior to that, most of the greatest sides did indeed have allrounders. Off the top of my head, there was Proctor in the late 60s South African side, Bailey in the 1950s England side, Miller in the 1948 Australian side, Tate in the 1928-29 England side, Kelleway in the 1921 Australian side, Noble in the 1902 Australian side, Jackson and Hirst in the 1902 England side, Giffen in the 1882 Australian side.

 

[Burgey]

Craig White was the worst of the lot in the 90s - was a hell of a player in the noughties though - off hand I can't think of anyone else who has been through quite such a remarkable transformation

Bowled serious wheels when he got it together.

 

[TheJediBrah]

That is only really true if you look at the great sides of the last 40 years.

Prior to that, most of the greatest sides did indeed have allrounders. Off the top of my head, there was Proctor in the late 60s South African side, Bailey in the 1950s England side, Miller in the 1948 Australian side, Tate in the 1928-29 England side, Kelleway in the 1921 Australian side, Noble in the 1902 Australian side, Jackson and Hirst in the 1902 England side, Giffen in the 1882 Australian side.

I was using a stricter definition of "greatest". As in there's only really been 2 or 3 in the history of the game.

As in I was basically just referring to 70-80s WI and 90s-00s Australia

 

[jimmy101]

It's true that 90's - 00's Australia never depended on an all-rounder. Especially, as RH mentioned, the Waugh twins could be called upon to bowl spells.

 

[mr_mister]

Think if Rieffel had been a pom he'd have played at least twice the tests he did. His bowling looked made for English conditions.

Always came across as a total sweetheart too.

He nearly has identical stats to Maurice Tate who is considered a legend

 

[honestbharani]

Another pointer to the fact that stats without context are meaningless.

 

[TheJediBrah]

It's true that 90's - 00's Australia never depended on an all-rounder. Especially, as RH mentioned, the Waugh twins could be called upon to bowl spells.

Even then, the Waugh's effectively stopped bowling entirely just when Australia were at their very best.

If they needed a 5th bowler from 1998-2005 ish it'd be Ricky Ponting or Damien Martyn bowling an over here and there, and occasionally Mark Waugh with some offies.

 

[honestbharani]

Nah.. Steve Waugh bowled quite a bit in India in both of their tours there. I think it was more circa post 2001 Ashes where he had that big injury and still played the last test with that, when he stopped bowling almost altogether.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Nah.. Steve Waugh bowled quite a bit in India in both of their tours there. I think it was more circa post 2001 Ashes where he had that big injury and still played the last test with that, when he stopped bowling almost altogether.

No, the 2001 tour of India was basically the only time he bowled at all post-1999. He had a crack on that tour, especially in the ODIs, thinking he might be able to start bowling again but then realised it was a no-go. Other than a few overs here and there his bowling days were well and truly over after the late 90s.

edit: turns out Steve Waugh didn't actually bowl a single ball in the Tests during the 2001 tour of India, you must be thinking of the ODIs

 

[TheJediBrah]

Another pointer to the fact that stats without context are meaningless.

Not disputing this, but one could also look at it the other way and see it as a sign that people's measuring of players can be influenced by factors other than reality and statistics.

 

[honestbharani]

No, the 2001 tour of India was basically the only time he bowled at all post-1999. He had a crack on that tour, especially in the ODIs, thinking he might be able to start bowling again but then realised it was a no-go. Other than a few overs here and there his bowling days were well and truly over after the late 90s.

Yeah, he was not a regular bowler like he was till about 1999 even durinng the 2001 series but he was still the break bowler, if you wanna call it that, and then post that 2001 Ashes he just did not bowl much ever again.

 

[honestbharani]

Not disputing this, but one could also look at it the other way and see it as a sign that people's measuring of players can be influenced by factors other than reality and statistics.

NOt in the case of Tate.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Yeah, he was not a regular bowler like he was till about 1999 even durinng the 2001 series but he was still the break bowler, if you wanna call it that, and then post that 2001 Ashes he just did not bowl much ever again.

ok but what I was saying was that the likes of Ricky Ponting and Damien Martyn were used ahead of him most of the time

NOt in the case of Tate.

If you say so, I've never even heard of him

 

[TheJediBrah]

Never really thought about Paul Reiffel or how good he was as an international cricketer. Or realised that he'd played 35 tests.

You'd think he'd get talked about given how effective he was

 

[mr_mister]

Yeah when I got into cricket Reiffels international career was nearly over

All I remember of him was dropping Klusener for six in the WC semi lol

 

[jimmy101]

Let me assure you that Pistol was very, very good. Was at his best during the mid-90's when he could bowl at a decent pace and trouble most batsmen.

And as for Tugga, I can remember him bowling a fair bit in the 2000's. If my memory serves me correctly, he bowled a fair few overs in the 2002/03 Ashes series.

 

[flibbertyjibber]

Think if Rieffel had been a pom he'd have played at least twice the tests he did. His bowling looked made for English conditions.

Always came across as a total sweetheart too.

Na, we would have dropped him all the time when he had a bad game so he still would have played same amount.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Let me assure you that Pistol was very, very good. Was at his best during the mid-90's when he could bowl at a decent pace and trouble most batsmen.

And as for Tugga, I can remember him bowling a fair bit in the 2000's. If my memory serves me correctly, he bowled a fair few overs in the 2002/03 Ashes series.

just looked it up, he bowled 112 overs total in the new millenium and took 3 wickets. And 2 of those wickets were in the 2002/03 Ashes series, where he bowled 25 overs.

Just out of interest SR Waugh bowling per year:
1999 - 14 overs
2000 - 7 overs
2001 - 0 overs
2002 - 18 overs
2003 - 85 overs

It's a surprise to me that he bowled 85 overs in 2003 somehow. Definitely thought he'd have been done by then.