Which era had the better bowlers?

[Tom Flint]

I've seen a few discussions on who is better between kane and Crowe. One of the arguments used to suggest Crowe is that he faced the better bowlers at his peak.
Which era had the better bowlers 1985-1995 or 2010-2020

 

[Pothas]

The depth in pace bowling right now is better than ever.

 

[trundler]

If one was to be anal about this (as one should on this), I'd say pre-2014 it was still a Steyn and the rest situation. For the last few years though, we've seen some absolute gun bowling. The guys from the 1985-95 have had their legends deservedly grow over time though.

The sheer number of lollapses recently is pretty telling.

 

[Tom Flint]

Rabada could end up with crazy numbers. Debuted very early and doesnt often get injured

 

[Slifer]

2010 til now good/very good/great bowlers imo:

Nz : Boult, Wagner, Southee,
India: Bumrah , Shami, Jadeja, Ashwin
Oz : Lyons, Cummins, Starc, Hazlewood, Johnson, Harris
Eng: Anderson, Broad, Swann
Pakistan: Shah, Abbas
Rsa: Steyn, Rabada, Maharaj, Philander, Morkel
BAN: Hasan
Wi: Roach, Holder, Gabriel

Some pretty decent attacks around especially New Zealand, India and Australia. In the case of New Zealand and India, their current attacks are probably their best ever. Can't say the same about the other teams. Of the above, the ones I'd call great/atg/ very likely to be atg would be: Steyn (obviously), Ashwin, Rabada (fix your away record), Cummins, Bumrah (has played all his tests away ??) .

1985 to 1995

Nz: Hadlee
India: Dev, Kumble
Oz: McDermott, Warne, Reid, Hughes
Eng: Botham
Pakistan: Wasim, Imran, Waqar
Rsa: Donald, DeVilliers
Wi: Holding, Garner, Walsh, Ambrose, Bishop, Patterson, Marshall

Wi and Pakistan and decidedly much much better attacks than their current counterparts. Though NZ was worse then, no current bowler from NZ and maybe only Cummins and Bumrah are in the same class as Sir Richard. Australia just on the cusp of greatness with McGrath's break through in 95 (in the Wi). RSA solid then as they were recently. Not much to choose between the periods. Had this been an argument about the 90s in general, then it would be a no contest, the 90s had over all better bowling.

 

[Tom Flint]

Herath unlucky not to be included in your list there

 

[harsh.ag]

This era had more number of great bowling units.

India, Australia, NZ, SA all have had multiple years of great attacks
England have had near ATG attacks at home

Compared to 85-95 - Windies and Pakistan only
Edit: I suppose SA too.

 

[nightprowler10]

The sheer number of lollapses recently is pretty telling.

I wonder how much of this is due to temperament being affected in the T20 era?

 

[Slifer]

Herath unlucky not to be included in your list there

Fk i forgot about Herath. Yeah he's certainly a class bowler from the 2010 era

 

[James]

If you were picking a bowling attack from @Slifer's list, I don't think a single player from the 2010-2020 era would make it.

 

[Slifer]

This era had more number of great bowling units.

India, Australia, NZ, SA all have had multiple years of great attacks
England have had near ATG attacks at home

Compared to 85-95 - Windies and Pakistan only
Edit: I suppose SA too.

The 90s imo is the only era that comes close. In which case: wi, oz, Pakistan and rsa all had atg attacks. Nz was poor. England had Fraser, Gough and Caddick at various times so I'd say they were ok; very good at home. Probably on the same level as the current wi attack. SL was very good as well. So yeah, touch and go between the 90s era vs 2010s. Best attack from then vs now:

90s
Wasim
Warne
Ambrose
McGrath/Donald/Pollock

10s
Ashwin
Steyn
Cummins
Bumrah

 

[Athlai]

Crowe very comfortably had the best record against WI and Pakistan in that time too

Batting records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPNcricinfo.com

stats.espncricinfo.com

 

[_00_deathscar]

The attacks now have more depth and are probably better rounded, especially across the various teams. In some cases (Ishant) your mind is conciously thinking "can't be part of a world class bowling attack" but that's because you're rating him on a previous incarnation rather than the actual. Since 2016 he averages 22 with the ball (albeit low WPM of just 3 WPM).
Sort of similar for Shami - really good bowler, but not a 'fashionable' one in the sense of a Donald/Ambrose etc (obviously not as good as them either) but very, very useful.
But most importantly, they (the Indian pace attack) works really well together as a team, with Ashwin and Jadeja as spinners (arguably two of the greatest Indian spinners of all time too).
Even their back ups are half way useful - Yadav, and someone like Siraj right now.

Australia is similar with Starc, Cummins, Hazelwood with arguably only Cummins being a potential ATG with the other two a level or so below. And Lyon is a good spinner too.

Late 80s/90s had great bowlers (and often great attacks too) but there was less depth.

 

[Briony]

Modern day attacks do seem to suffer from injuries and sometimes rotation more though. Guess that's all part of the IPL and T20 circuses. Fatigue sets in. What about the fact that Crowe didn't have the bigger bats or enjoy the shorter boundaries that Williamson does?

 

[Athlai]

Could be fun to see who the top 5 players are for each decade, and for each decade beginning halfway through the decade. See how much of a difference there is.

 

[Burgey]

Modern day attacks do seem to suffer from injuries and sometimes rotation more though. Guess that's all part of the IPL and T20 circuses. Fatigue sets in. What about the fact that Crowe didn't have the bigger bats or enjoy the shorter boundaries that Williamson does?

It’s for more to do with tests being played back to back tbh.

An old Ashes tour would be a 4-6 week build up of FC matches, 5ODIs then the tests would be 2 weeks apart each. There were more games overall but a lot more time for bowlers to recover properly. In 89, for example, I think Alderman barely played outside the tests and the reserve bowlers got a lot of FC bowling, which meant if they had to be called in they were ready to go (though tbf on that tour they didn’t get called in, but the point stands).

 

[Red_Ink_Squid]

If you were picking a bowling attack from @Slifer's list, I don't think a single player from the 2010-2020 era would make it.

Steyn would be a fair pick from that bunch. Depending on how Cummins and Bumrah's careers play out from here they could yet end up in the same bracket (long way to go obviously).

But generally agree your point. The argument for recent times being stronger relies on the prevalence and depth of good bowlers rather than the relative quality of the absolute top tier guys from each era, which as you say would favour the '85-'95 lot.

 

[Line and Length]

Burgey makes an excellent point re tour schedules.

 

[aussie tragic]

A little unfair on Martin Crowe here by limiting it to 1985-95 as he actually debuted in 1982.

He played against Dennis Lillee, Terry Alderman and Bob Willis, plus pointing out it was peak Botham, rather than fatty Botham after 86. Abdul Qadir also should be mentioned (played until 1990)

 

[Tom Flint]

Steyn would be a fair pick from that bunch. Depending on how Cummins and Bumrah's careers play out from here they could yet end up in the same bracket (long way to go obviously).

But generally agree your point. The argument for recent times being stronger relies on the prevalence and depth of good bowlers rather than the relative quality of the absolute top tier guys from each era, which as you say would favour the '85-'95 lot.

I think rabada could end up with the best numbers of the lot. In 5 years time I think bumrah, rabada, cummins steyn will be on par or ahead of the top 4 from the previous era