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Which doosra was better?

C_C

International Captain
Murali's by a country mile and half.
And Saqqi wasnt the originator of the doosra.
 

C_C

International Captain
The doosra has been bowled by Erapalli Prasanna and Sonny Ramadhin before.......i cant find an instance of the doosra being bowled before Ramadhin.....therefore as far as i know, Ramadhin is the inventor of the doosra.
 
C_C said:
The doosra has been bowled by Erapalli Prasanna and Sonny Ramadhin before.......i cant find an instance of the doosra being bowled before Ramadhin.....therefore as far as i know, Ramadhin is the inventor of the doosra.
Interesting.

have you ever seen any footage of those two bowling it?

If so, how would you rate the effectiveness of the delivery compared to the versions exhibited by messrs Muttiah & Saqqy?
 

C_C

International Captain
I have seen Prasanna bowl a couple of times but i've never seen Ramadhin bowl.
However, i've read about him and the furore he created in England ( alongside Alf Valentine)...and the cause of the 'furore' was this particular delivery that behaved very much like the 'doosra' , causing England to use padding up tactics and promptly change the lbw rules.

Prasanna's doosra ( from what i've read/heard,since i didnt actually see him bowl the doosra) kicked up and moved a lil bit towards the off side( to the right handed batsman)......not as much as Saqlain's and nowhere as much as Murali's.
 
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luckyeddie

Cricket Web Staff Member
C_C said:
I have seen Prasanna bowl a couple of times but i've never seen Ramadhin bowl.
However, i've read about him and the furore he created in England ( alongside Alf Valentine)...and the cause of the 'furore' was this particular delivery that behaved very much like the 'doosra' , causing England to use padding up tactics and promptly change the lbw rules.

Prasanna's doosra ( from what i've read/heard,since i didnt actually see him bowl the doosra) kicked up and moved a lil bit towards the off side( to the right handed batsman)......not as much as Saqlain's and nowhere as much as Murali's.
There was a HUGE furore about Ramadhin's quicker 'arm ball' in exactly the same way that there was about a similar delivery of Tony Lock. It seems that in order for an offie to employ the same amount of witchcraft we have come to associate with the top leggies, there are always going to be questions as to the legitimacy or not of the delivery.

As for me, I think that both actions were 'questionable' at best, and Tony Lock was 'called' in a test match, of course.
 

vic_orthdox

Global Moderator
What I've read of Ramadhin, they talked about him bowling "well-disguised mixture of off and leg breaks". But did they all come out with an off-spinner's action? :huh:
 

Top_Cat

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As for me, I think that both actions were 'questionable' at best, and Tony Lock was 'called' in a test match, of course.
I've seen a fair bit of Tony Lock's bowling and 'questionable' is an understatement. 'Deliberate ping at leg-stump' might be more accurate based on what I've seen.
 

C_C

International Captain
We cannot guage on the naked eye , especially from film, which is 2-D mapping of 3-d objects.
For due to the optical illusion and complex movements of various joints, someone who bends his elbow might seem like a blatent chucker ( Murali) while someone else, who also bends his elbow might seem like a posessor of a pristine action ( McGrath).
 

SJS

Hall of Fame Member
No one has moved it further away from the batsman consistently on all surfaces than Murali. He has to get it.

As far as legality goes, the doosra can only be bowled one way call it legal or something stronger :p
 

C_C

International Captain
SJS said:
No one has moved it further away from the batsman consistently on all surfaces than Murali. He has to get it.

As far as legality goes, the doosra can only be bowled one way call it legal or something stronger :p
Same with every other delivery. You can call it legal or something stronger.
It is something you cannot challenge, so i suggest a rethink from your part.
 

C_C

International Captain
Langeveldt said:
Saqqi, because he bowled it.

he didnt bowl it any more than Murali bowls it.

i dont get it why some people just dont get this SIMPLE logical train of thought :


1. The laws until recently were absolute - ANY flexion = chuck, ABSOLUTELY NO FLEXION = legal.

2. Biomechanics experts claim that it is almost impossible to have ZERO flexion in the elbow.

3. ICC study showed that every single bowler barring Sarwan flexed the elbow

4. Analysis of videos from multiple viewpoints(though less accurate than analysis on site) proved that even bowlers like McGrath, Lillee, Ambrose, Holding, etc. all flexed their elbows ( look up Gus Fraser's article 'whats common between McGrath, Lillee,Ambrose, etc ? they all chucked)

5. A degree of tolerance was introduced upon discovery of this FACT

6. If one wants to maintain #1, ie, an absolutist law, then McGrath,Holding, Murali, Kumble, Akram, Lillee, Warney, Marshall, Hadlee, etc. were ALL chuckers, since they HAD flexion at their elbow.

7. If one wants to maintain #5, ie, a tolerance figure inferred upon from the flexion angles of various players, then Murali is just as legitimate was Warney or Saqlain.


It is just that simple, really.

Another fact to keep in mind - without detailed video analysis involving multiple camera angles and knowledge into the composite motion of each of the three joins in the human arm one cannot tell if it is a chuck or not a chuck.
 

twctopcat

International Regular
Shane Warne said:
I hope we get to see Saqqi perform on the international stage again one day soon.
I would like to see his "teesra" that he is supposedly developing. What is Saqqi actually up to at the moment?? Is he injured or something??
 

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