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What's a politics question you've always wanted to ask Cribb but haven't [...]?

Pratters

Cricket, Lovely Cricket
I don't hate Bangladeshis. How would you feel if you have your streets are lined up with people across the border though.
 

GIMH

Norwood's on Fire
@Cribb do you really think the community would look after sick poor people in a libertarian society
 

Prince EWS

Global Moderator
Don't agree with free borders. Bangladeshis keep coming to Kolkata and it sucks. We have so much more population now than even 5 years ago. World's biggest refugee camp.
I don't really think your rights should be determined by where your mother was when you were born, but that's just me.
 

Pratters

Cricket, Lovely Cricket
For millions of years we had followed this system of nations which has lead to vast inequalities in regions. So if we just disallow it instantly, people will throng to the places they deem will give them more opportunities. This will affect the dynamics of the region which is doing well. Just take the case of Calcutta and Bangladesh. Illegal immigrants just add to the burden of the current tax payers and countries already exhausted by resources like say India.
 

Pratters

Cricket, Lovely Cricket
This thread should be transferred to off topic and renamed 'Political Debate Thread' or 'Cribbs' Politcal Lounge' or some thing. Will be nice to have a political debating place. Many forums have it and it's pretty awesome.
 

Pratters

Cricket, Lovely Cricket
I know, but at the cost of opportunities for people who have worked for long time to get them. You build your house on your ideals for ages, then just let any one in, why exactly? Come to Calcutta one day and let me know if you like what you see on the roads buddy.
 

Pratters

Cricket, Lovely Cricket
I am not against people going from one nation to another. It has to be processed properly so that the dynamics of the places they go to is not disturbed. Have you heard about the South East Asian Financial crisis Cribbage? They opened their markets and all their money went out with a few hours. Freeing an economy has to be done in stages. In the same way, freeing of countries has to be done in stages. Right now, there is so much inequality, it will take at least 100 years for things to be as free as you and I would want to see it, if ever. Europe is doing it to an extent and it is great to see. I wouldn't want Europe and Africa to open their borders right now though, say.
 

harsh.ag

Hall of Fame Member
Don't know why, but I'm going to give this a shot.

Free borders doesn't have to be a utopian concept. There can be sensible policy making - such as you can move to Country A from Country B if (and this mostly applies to unskilled labour as skilled labour has a much higher payoff):

1) You agree to pay a certain fees (either one time or recurring) (and this is other than the taxes you will be paying in Country A)
2) You will return if you don't get a job within _____ days/months
3) You will not be eligible for Social Welfare policies until ____ years

and other rules which make sense on a country-by-country basis to make both sides better off, and prevent mass immigration. From what I have seen, immigrants would much rather be legal than illegal even at great costs.

For Pratters: If all countries and all cities are open to such policies, then Kolkata will hopefully and probably not be overridden by Bangladeshis since the Bangladeshis will have better choices. Even if it is, you could just move to Prague.
 

Prince EWS

Global Moderator
Oi Cribb my question about healthcare was serious. Answer it
Yeah I'll answer that later/tomorrow. I've had beers now and it's not something I can answer in one sentence by being a condescending arsehole like I could with Pratters anti-immigration shtick. :ph34r:
 

Daemon

Request Your Custom Title Now!
If lky read some of cribb's thoughts he'd have passed away a lot earlier imo
 

Dan

Global Moderator
For millions of years we had followed this system of nations which has lead to vast inequalities in regions. So if we just disallow it instantly, people will throng to the places they deem will give them more opportunities. This will affect the dynamics of the region which is doing well. Just take the case of Calcutta and Bangladesh. Illegal immigrants just add to the burden of the current tax payers and countries already exhausted by resources like say India.
Umm, what? Modern nation-states are a pretty recent construct; I mean, you can trace the existence of sovereign states back to the Treaty of Westphalia, but before that the idea of a 'country' was a pretty nebulous concept at best. I mean, control of territory was literally a case of "so how much land can you defend? Ok, that's your border for now".

And even that didn't engender an actual world system of states immediately. Think Africa during the 1800s -- old white men from European powers dividing up Africa by drawing arbitrary lines across a continent, often splitting ethnically-homogenous nations across different states. Not exactly a stable system. It was only after World War 2, when the norm against conquest became a thing as a result of the formation of the UN, that we actually had a coherent "system of nations". So you can't really invoke an appeal to tradition there, when the tradition isn't really that old.

I know, but at the cost of opportunities for people who have worked for long time to get them. You build your house on your ideals for ages, then just let any one in, why exactly? Come to Calcutta one day and let me know if you like what you see on the roads buddy.
I was in Mumbai recently and I didn't like what I saw on the side of the road. It was very confronting to see that kind of poverty. But that kind of poverty isn't solved by arbitrarily banning poor people who aren't from Mumbai from being in Mumbai. It won't deconstruct Dharavi and give Mumbai's poorest citizens jobs with salaries described in terms of crores. If anything, it only worsens poverty -- especially rural poverty.

I am not against people going from one nation to another. It has to be processed properly so that the dynamics of the places they go to is not disturbed. Have you heard about the South East Asian Financial crisis Cribbage? They opened their markets and all their money went out with a few hours. Freeing an economy has to be done in stages. In the same way, freeing of countries has to be done in stages. Right now, there is so much inequality, it will take at least 100 years for things to be as free as you and I would want to see it, if ever. Europe is doing it to an extent and it is great to see. I wouldn't want Europe and Africa to open their borders right now though, say.
You really don't understand why that happened, do you?
 

Dan

Global Moderator
Yeah I'll answer that later/tomorrow. I've had beers now and it's not something I can answer in one sentence by being a condescending arsehole like I could with Pratters anti-immigration shtick. :ph34r:
Throwing stuff was also a legitimate question, ****.
 

Pratters

Cricket, Lovely Cricket
Umm, what? Modern nation-states are a pretty recent construct; I mean, you can trace the existence of sovereign states back to the Treaty of Westphalia, but before that the idea of a 'country' was a pretty nebulous concept at best. I mean, control of territory was literally a case of "so how much land can you defend? Ok, that's your border for now".
Earlier, people couldn't travel as much, so there were kingdoms instead of countries, some small, others bigger.

I was in Mumbai recently and I didn't like what I saw on the side of the road. It was very confronting to see that kind of poverty. But that kind of poverty isn't solved by arbitrarily banning poor people who aren't from Mumbai from being in Mumbai. It won't deconstruct Dharavi and give Mumbai's poorest citizens jobs with salaries described in terms of crores. If anything, it only worsens poverty -- especially rural poverty.
Adding more poor to the problem which already exists makes it only worse. The example of Mumbai and rural India isn't a good one. There rural poverty worsens. In the case of immigration the poor have more competition in their already miserable lifestyle.

You really don't understand why that happened, do you?
Freeing of economies has to be done in stages, wouldn't you agree? It's widely accepted as the the forward in econmics. In the same way freeing of countries has to be done in stages.
 
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Pothas

Hall of Fame Member
Would you actually vote for UKIP of you lived in the UK? Desoite their attitude towards immigration and new found love for a national health service.
 

Pratters

Cricket, Lovely Cricket
Would you actually vote for UKIP of you lived in the UK? Desoite their attitude towards immigration and new found love for a national health service.
Do not know about the party. As I said earlier, I am not anti immigration. I am not an immigration nazi. It has to be done in stages. There has to be a vision for it. You keep freeing things step by step.
 

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