West Indies and India in New Zealand

[pup11]

NZ are playing tests?

Yeah that came as a shock to me tbh!!

 

[pup11]

Could be right regarding West Indies. But India? Must be joking.

Still playing a two match test series won't raise their test standards much, no matter who they are playing against.

 

[Bahnz]

NZ are playing tests?

Although not bad by the standards of recent years, 4 matches against test quality opposition is still pretty pathetic, especially when you consider that not a single international is scheduled for February, the month during which New Zealand usually experiences its best weather.

 

[pup11]

Don't think we should write off the WIndies ahead of this series. They've just had a very competetive (imo) series versus Australia, and have at least 3 recognised class test batsmen (Chanderpaul, Sarwan and Gayle) with some good looking young guys (Bravo, Marshall and Chattergoon). We are without any experienced, test batsman in the calibre of Chanderpaul. Taylor and Oram would probably be our best in the XI, then we have a lot of new guys floting around, and some guys trying to re-invent themselves in some ways (McCullum up the order, How re-establishing himself).

We might have them on the bowling, though, but conditions may even that out. Taylor is a greatly improved bowler, while NZ conditions might be bread and butter for someone like Sammy. Not to mention the fact we have a bad track record against genuine pace bowlers, which WIndie have in spades (Taylor, Edwards and Powell).

I think this series will be closer than most people will be expecting, if the WIndies field the best XI that they can.

I agree, and its not as if New Zealand' test team is in any great shape either, on paper West Indian team looks far formidable when compared to the Black caps, so i can't understand what makes people say that this series would be one sided.

 

[Uppercut]

I agree, and its not as if New Zealand' test team is in any great shape either, on paper West Indian team looks far formidable when compared to the Black caps, so i can't understand what makes people say that this series would be one sided.

NZ tend to be better than they look on paper, West Indies the opposite recently. And where the tests are being played is a big part of it too, considering how WI batted in English conditions last summer.

 

[roseboy64]

Could be right regarding West Indies. But India? Must be joking.

Meant least number of Tests not the quality of the teams.

 

[bryce]

Problem in the past for the West Indies has usually been getting runs out of their less established players, though Chanderpaul, Gayle & Sarwan could potentially carry the batting through the tour, that will be unlikely and they will probaly need decent contributions from other batsmen in the list for WI to have a good series. Bravo would be highly desirable for this tour, as he adds a balance to a WI XI that they could not possibly have without him, though him being fit is probaly quite unlikely. Edwards has the potential to pick up more than a few wickets here, if he's on-song.

 

[NZTailender]

Gayle has a good record in/against NZ iirc. Things will definitely hinge on his batting and captaincy, and whether or not the quicks can crank it up. Most of the time our batsmen look like rabbits in headlights against genuine pace.

 

[Perm]

The last time the West Indies were here they were pretty average, but that was when Chanderpaul was captain and going through his shocking run of form. Things could be very different this time.

 

[anoop4real]

IMO WI has the least chance.........

 

[pup11]

The last time the West Indies were here they were pretty average, but that was when Chanderpaul was captain and going through his shocking run of form. Things could be very different this time.

Chanderpaul has been in awesome form for the last 2 years now, and if he shows similar form and gets decent support from Gayle, Marshall, Sarwan then West Indies would really be in a very good position to do well, Taylor, Powell and Edwards may also prove to be handy in NZ conditions.

 

[bryce]

Cannot remember a young WI batsman doing well in NZ, be interesting to see how the less established WI batsmen go

 

[NZTailender]

As far as tests go, both sides will be without their elder statesmen (Lara and Fleming) who played in the last NZ-WI series.

Players who will definitely and probably be missing from the upcoming tour are:
Fleming, Bond, Astle, Styris, H Marshall.
Lara, Lewis, DR Smith, Bradshaw.

Fulton and Franklin iffy at this stage, it would seem; a question of fitness and form
Not sure of the chances of a recall for Ganga and Morton, Liam or Xavier would be able to tell me (I hope!).

New Zealand probably weakened more than the WIndies, without Fleming, Bond, Astle or Styris in the tests.
Morton and Ganga may be more of a loss than it would seem, if they do not make it, as they were #1 and #3 in averages last tour.

The West Indies attack will actually be fairly similar to last tour, with Powell, Edwards, Taylor and Gayle. Bravo was injured so played as a specialist batsman, IIRC. Possibly Sammy and Benn will play, or Juggernauth, or Miller or Mohammed. That spinner spot is anyones guess really, but I predict Gayle will outperform whoever gets picked (though I am a fan of both Benn and Juggernauth).

As I mentioned earlier, NZ tend to struggle against genuine pace in some ways. For example, Edwards and Powell struck at 44 and 42 respectively on the last tour, indicating quick wicket taking (obviously), but with high economy rates so it balanced out. Nearly 3 years have passed, and with experience they should perform better than that tour.

On New Zealand's side, returning will be Mills, Martin and Vettori. Possibly Franklin too.
Last time, Mills carved up in his only test, and all the bowlers shared the wickets around evenly (Mills 6, Vettori 7, Martin 8, Franklin 8 and Bond 8).
NZ will be boosted by Oram, who missed out last time, and a more experienced Mills, an improved Martin and the captain Vettori. Gillespie, O'Brien and Southee are all possibles, but I expect the attack will be lead by Mills and Martin. O'Brien is actually the incumbent, and took 4 wickets in his last test, which may be enough to seal him a berth in the first test.

Batting wise, NZ hardly resemble the last time these two clashed. How actually played in the last series, scoring 57 runs @ 19 in 4 innings (1 not out). As we've seen against and in England, he's greatly improved since then. Whether or not Redmond will be retained is yet to be seen, but it won't matter as we'll still be going into the first test with a 'new' opening partnership.
I guess Bell is an outside chance to be recalled - possibly all down to the first rounds of domestic cricket. Or Watling could swing a cap if he goes well on the A tour. Cumming a remote chance, too.

The middle order looks patchy. Hopefully someone will be called up to replace Hopkins and McCullum will take the gloves again - perhaps batting at around 5 in the order. Ideally I'd like to see How, opener #2, Fulton, Taylor, McCullum, Flynn, Oram, Vettori, Franklin, Mills, Martin. Bats to 9, sort of, with plenty of bowling.

However, I think only two of those people would make it ahead of current WIndies top 6 - How ahead of Chattergoon and Taylor ahead of Marshall (Gayle, How, Sarwan, Taylor, Chanderpaul, Bravo). McCullum is better than Ramdin, while our tail is vastly superior in batting to the WIndies - something that could be the deciding factor in how the tests play out.

I think it will come down to three simple factors:
How much the pitches favour the bowlers.
If the NZ bowling attack can dislodge the class, experienced, WIndies batsmen (Gayle, Sarwan and Chanderpaul).
If the new NZ batting line up can withstand bowlers who bowl faster than they generally face.

If J Taylor and Chanderpaul are on song, I think we'll see a 1-0 WIndies victory, with the first test being a draw. If Mills, Vettori and McCullum are at the top of their games, I think we'll see it 1-0 in favour of NZ.

I think it will be a close series. Closer than most people will be thinking, and closer than anyone could hope for. I wish it was longer than 2 tests.

 

[_Ed_]

Excellent post.

However, being a Mills fan, I'd like to disagree and say that that lineup would bat down to 10.

 

[roseboy64]

No chance for Ganga. Little chance for Morton. No Bravo as well. Ramdin is 50/50.

 

[Uppercut]

I think it will come down to three simple factors:
How much the pitches favour the bowlers.
If the NZ bowling attack can dislodge the class, experienced, WIndies batsmen (Gayle, Sarwan and Chanderpaul).
If the new NZ batting line up can withstand bowlers who bowl faster than they generally face.

For me, the biggest factor is how well West Indies deal with NZ conditions. Remember their tour of England last summer? Their batsman had not the faintest idea of how to bat there (bar the brick wall batting at 5). If they've learnt nothing from that tour, NZ will run through them.

 

[bryce]

For me, the biggest factor is how well West Indies deal with NZ conditions. Remember their tour of England last summer? Their batsman had not the faintest idea of how to bat there (bar the brick wall batting at 5). If they've learnt nothing from that tour, NZ will run through them.

Yep and the NZ seamers will be well aware of that, i'd like to see O'Brien play the first Test i'm sure he's capable of a big series

 

[NZTailender]

No chance for Ganga. Little chance for Morton. No Bravo as well. Ramdin is 50/50.

Bravo will be a big loss. Ticks one thing over in favour for NZ.

 

[NZTailender]

For me, the biggest factor is how well West Indies deal with NZ conditions. Remember their tour of England last summer? Their batsman had not the faintest idea of how to bat there (bar the brick wall batting at 5). If they've learnt nothing from that tour, NZ will run through them.

New Zealand conditions don't always equal English conditions though. We played two spinners on a turning track earlier this year, something I can't remember happening in NZ for a while (cue someone linking to a test from 3 years ago).

 

[bryce]

Mind you, you only really have to look at Jake Orams Test bowling record...

Oram at home - 41 wickets@18.75, SR:52.10 RPO:2.15
Oram away - 19 wickets@56.26, SR:129.40 RPO:2.60

Also,
Oram bowling after toss won and elected to field
27 wickets@15.88, SR:47.80 RPO:1.99