Was Ricky Ponting the best captain ever?

[OverratedSanity]

Results (and the captain's contributions to said results) are the only way to assess a captain's worth and, consequently, Punter was the best ever captain.

Never go full silentstriker

 

[sledger]

He was right then and he is right now.

 

[sledger]

If not for Vaughan, Trescothick and their Murray Mints, I would definitely say yes. But the way things are his Ashes record holds him back

I don't think that is the case really. He could not do much about that. Just outplayed by a team that hit it's absolute peak and was better in every area over the course of a series. He was probably one of the reasons why it was as competitive as it was though. All the sides that toured England until Aus returned were evidently much weaker.

 

[sledger]

In answer to the question

No.
Not even close.
It's all about adding value to what you've got at your disposal.
Inviting England to bat at Edgbaston in 2005 and failing to seal the deal at Glamorgan in 2009 are as much evidence as anyone needs.

Let down by weak bowlers on both occasions. Both incredibly tight games. Not a lot more he could have done in the circumstances. He undeniably added value to what was already in the squad. A phenomenal batsman who was better than anyone else on the circuit throughout his time in office, so to speak.

 

[sledger]

Plus Mushtaq, Howarth, Taylor, Armstrong, Vaughan, Strauss and Hutton.
Not to mention Ganguly and Wadekar.

Haha you have got to be joking. Value added indeed. Hmph.

 

[sledger]

Strauss. They even had boxing or something and Anderson broke a rib as a result.

EDIT: https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2010/oct/19/pre-ashes-boot-camps-team-building

lmao they made him spar with Tremlett? Wtf.

vs

****ing hell. Shades of John Cena.

 

[andmark]

I knew he was in good shape, but Christ that's borderline excessive. I doubted the effectiveness of boxing as a cricket exercise anyway, but surely someone could've at least thought about the small issue of weight divisions.

 

[SillyCowCorner1]

Blood, sweat, and tears.

 

[Senile Sentry]

Before 2007 - God level captaincy
2008-2009-2010 - Average results

 

[Bijed]

I knew he was in good shape, but Christ that's borderline excessive. I doubted the effectiveness of boxing as a cricket exercise anyway, but surely someone could've at least thought about the small issue of weight divisions.

Don't think Tremmers was quite that ripped back then tbf, it's mostly since he's retired from playing cricket that's he's gone full-on extreme bodybuilder. That said, would have been much bigger than Jimmy anyway

Would pay to see a rematch, though

 

[sledger]

There hasn't been anyone comparable since him though, hence my best of the "modern era" point.

Edit: @ senile c word

 

[Howe_zat]

Lol no

Great W/L record but that's a really weak way to evaluate captaincy

Might go for one of Brearley, Worrell or Border tbh. Imran Khan, Benaud, Graeme Smith, Lloyd, Fleming up there too.

The problem with this kind of captaincy talk is that it often reduces to naming the same names as conventional wisdom allows rather than finding a way to analyse it properly.

edit: and conventional wisdom in this case usually means 20 year old wisdom

 

[smash84]

if you go purely by averages then hard to beat Imran averaging 19 with the ball and 51 with the bat during his captaincy

 

[GIMH]

Surprised Dhoni hasn’t been brought up given his achievements with India (at least until Strauss knocked him off his ****ing perch)

 

[morgieb]

Not as good of a captain as Tendulkar

 

[stephen]

An argument could be made that Ponting was the greatest one day skipper of all time. He was captain in 2003 and then again in 2007. In 2003 he had an underperforming Andy Symonds who he showed faith in and lost his premiere bowler on the eve of the tournament and still managed to win every game.

In 2007 he had an arguably weaker side on paper with Brett Lee ruled out and yet Australia annihilated all in their way.

Not to mention his supreme record in ODIs. The story of him trashing the dressing room after the 434 game shows just how much every single game meant to him and how much it hurt him to lose.

In tests he was overly conservative. Not a bad captain but certainly not great. I think the 2005 Ashes scared him away from anything to fancy after the bowl first fiasco at Edgbaston.

 

[SillyCowCorner1]

I never knew he trashed the dressing room.

Surprised he didn't kicked Bracken's *** for the dropped catch.

 

[Son Of Coco]

Definitely not. Tactically he wasn't good. Batted well yes, but you're own individual performance is only a part of what makes someone a great captain. He was pretty poor when it came to field settings and attacking the game.

 

[Adders]

If not for Vaughan, Trescothick and their Murray Mints, I would definitely say yes. But the way things are his Ashes record holds him back

Omfg this is so dire it's not funny.

What part did Vaughan, Trescothick and Murray Mints play in 2009 and by far the biggest blight on Pontings Ashes record 10/11?

And I do wonder, did you ever stop to consider who was England bowling coach in 2005?

 

[cnerd123]

The problem with this kind of captaincy talk is that it often reduces to naming the same names as conventional wisdom allows rather than finding a way to analyse it properly.

edit: and conventional wisdom in this case usually means 20 year old wisdom

That's true.

Modern cricket is at quite a disadvantage with regards to captaincy as well, in that we can see and dissect every decision made, and the influence of data and coaches are overwhelming. We don't get romanticised descriptions of players leadership abilities that we would get even as recently as the 70s/80s. Back then people rave about how Brearley got the most out of Botham. Now we would complain about how unprofessional Botham is, and Brearley would probably be made redundant by overbearing coaches and data analysts.

I think we can all agree that commanding the respect of the dressing room is a must for a good captain. What else can we evaluate them on?