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Viv Richards Voted as County Cricket's Greatest Overseas Player.

Lillian Thomson

Hall of Fame Member
Lloyd in second? Surprises me.

The other guys who picked up a bunch of votes can all be explained in logical or emotional terms, but I don't really know why Lloyd polled that high?
Lancashire won the Gillette Cup four times during his tenure and that was the big one at the time. You didn’t see County Cricket on TV much and Lloyd was also one of the great Sunday League personalities. The only surprise is that he didn’t run Viv a bit closer.
 

Bolo.

International Vice-Captain
Lancashire won the Gillette Cup four times during his tenure and that was the big one at the time. You didn’t see County Cricket on TV much and Lloyd was also one of the great Sunday League personalities. The only surprise is that he didn’t run Viv a bit closer.
Viv has him beat on just about everthing though- quality as a bat, weight if runs, flair, popularity (Im assuming here, might be wrong), and the recency issue- not too many people would remember Lloyd.

I never watched either in county, but it doesnt seem like Lloyd is ahead on anything but the titles issue, which I know people tend to put a fair amount of stead in when it comes to county, but Im not sure how much.

Not that I think Viv should be winning either. I reckon one of the ARs should probably take it, like Rice, who scored more county runs than Viv in both formats and picked up about 900 wickets combined, on top of being a successful captain... not that I necessarily think Rice deserves it either.
 

AndrewB

International Vice-Captain
Viv has him beat on just about everthing though- quality as a bat, weight if runs, flair, popularity (Im assuming here, might be wrong), and the recency issue- not too many people would remember Lloyd.

I never watched either in county, but it doesnt seem like Lloyd is ahead on anything but the titles issue, which I know people tend to put a fair amount of stead in when it comes to county, but Im not sure how much.
Not sure why Viv should be ahead on popularity; Clive was hugely popular at Lancashire and was there for nearly 20 years. And you only have to be 40-odd to remember Lloyd (and you have to be 30-odd to remember Richards, it's not like there's decades between them).

Also Clive probably edges it as a fielder.
 

AndrewB

International Vice-Captain
Is there a report of this match available anywhere? Will be fun to read.
Wisden: "Richards produced a masterpiece of aggression and timing to steer Glamorgan to a second successive Championship victory, successful negotiations between the captains having overcome the weather's earlier interference. Hampshire's first innings had been dominated by a magnificent 153 from Robin Smith off 155 deliveries. He hit three sixes and 23 fours. Glamorgan were then thwarted by rain, which claimed 86 overs of the second day, and declared 292 behind, which Hampshire quickly extended to 363. A second declaration left Glamorgan with 102 overs to better that, and when they lost half their wickets for 139, Nicholas's boldness seemed likely to be rewarded. However, the former Hampshire all-rounder, Cowley, provided the support Richards needed to play an innings of enormous quality. When the last hour was called with 112 still required, it seemed Richards might have miscalculated, but a four, six and four in Marshall's last over saw Glamorgan home with two balls to spare. Richards faced only 155 deliveries for his 164 and hit five sixes - none of them exploiting a short boundary on the pavilion side - and seventeen fours."
 

Red

The normal awards that everyone else has
Either way it's a bit odd he didn't get a single test in England with that county record. Was he in either of the '97 or '01 touring squads?
Not in '01 for sure. Slater, Hayden, Ponting, Waugh, Waugh, Martyn was our starting XI. Katich replaced Martyn in one test and '01 was the series that saw Slater dropped and the beginning of the Hayden Langer pairing (in the final test)

Kat and Langer were the only reserve bats heading in.

My memory was wrong, because I thought Ponting's move to three from six occurred because the incumbent 3 (Langer) moved up to open.
 

mr_mister

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
yeah i thought that too til recently re Ponting/Langer/Slater. Seems they wanted Martyn in the XI, wanted to make Ponting the new 3 and originally there was no plans for Langer. Langer actually assumed his test career was over and halfway through the tour was making plans to retire(or so he has said in a recent interview I saw with Barrie Cassidy) because he was so devastated. His form had been pretty good at 3(just checked, he'd averaged 45 there since it was made his permanent spot in 1998) so I guess he just figured even his best wouldn't be good enough to match what Ponting could offer - everyone must have rightly assumed Punter was gonna be a future ATG by 2001.

lucky for Langer Slater self imploded and he got to continue a long test career

looking back it's pretty interesting regarding the timing to move Langer out of 3 and Ponting into 3. Ponting's 00/01 home summer was only okay really without being remarkable(0 centuries and 2 fifties) and then his '01 India tour was of course tragic, 17 runs from 5 innings including 3 ducks and a best of 11. Yet somehow they decided he needed Langer's spot at 3.

Originally that was looking like a really dumb idea too as during the first 3 ashes tests of '01 Ponting hit 60 runs from his first five digs with a best of 17. Must have been reallly close to getting dropped just like in '99 when he followed 3 consecutive ducks with a 197. This time he got 144 and 72 in the 4th test and of course from then on he became the Ponting we all know

really had a topsy-turvy career there initially though didn't he
 
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Red

The normal awards that everyone else has
Interesting in that period that Lehmann wasn't getting on to tours even. I always rated him as better than Katich, especially as the reserve middle order bat earlier on. Kat was a different story once he found his spot opening though.
 

stephen

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Interesting in that period that Lehmann wasn't getting on to tours even. I always rated him as better than Katich, especially as the reserve middle order bat earlier on. Kat was a different story once he found his spot opening though.
Katich was Steve Waugh's favourite.

Ponting had a relatively poor start to his career. The establishment had a huge amount of faith in him though and once he cleaned himself up a bit and started taking things a bit more seriously his results went from good to great.
 

mr_mister

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Katich was Steve Waugh's favourite.

Ponting had a relatively poor start to his career. The establishment had a huge amount of faith in him though and once he cleaned himself up a bit and started taking things a bit more seriously his results went from good to great.

Yeah it's interesting. He was hot and cold before 2002 but his hot moments were super hot (like his twin knocks in the first test of the SL tour in '99 where scoring seemed impossible for everyone but him) as well as 3 tons in 4 tests in late '99/early '00 (Pak/india series). and I guess his technique and style just promised so much.

But in an era where there were countless middle order batsmen tearing up domestic level including Bevan, Law, Love and Lehmann and with the Waugh brothers have seemingly concrete spots in the middle order it's interesting Ponting was allowed so much time to find himself. Not sure if any many other players would be allowed 3 consecutive ducks (Law wasn't even allowed the chance to be dismissed haha) and he actually had a crazy poor run from the Windies 00/01 series to halfway through the '01 ashes.

https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/e...an;template=results;type=batting;view=innings

Averaged 19 from 11 consecutive tests during this time. That's a long rope for a struggling aussie batsman in that era
 
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trundler

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I think it's pretty standard for prodigies who debut that young to be hot and cold though. Ponting's FC and age group success had ATG written all over it.
 

trundler

Request Your Custom Title Now!
Interesting thought I've had:

If Bevan or Love had been given a short run around that time, could they have ended up like Voges?
 

mr_mister

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Ah yeah he was super young and had that going for him. But that's a long run of poor form considering there was so much other talent chomping at the bit for a spot. It wasn't an English team he was staying in, it was an Australian one. I guess the fact we pretty much won everything maybe meant we could take luxuries and let a perceived prodigy have many chances. ended up the right call in the end i guess

and re the Bevan/Love stuff, well Bevan would have had a lot of work to do considering he'd already done so much damage to his batting average in '97 haha

Voges still averaged 50 or so when he began his Bradmanesque run, Bevan averaged a tick under 30 and from several more tests too

I guess Love very well could have if he was given 15 tests. Even Hodge was looking the goods in his short career
 

morgieb

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Yeah I too would like to know Hick's FC average before tests nerfed it a bit. With the reputation he had as England's potential saviour before he flopped I wouldn't be suprised if it was north of 65 before he finally became english

and that's crazy that Lehmann nearly averaged 70. I didn't think anything about his technique would be especially suited to English conditions, I thought his ability against spin was meant to be his biggest strength (averaged 45 in Asia in tests compared to 39 in Australia)

Either way it's a bit odd he didn't get a single test in England with that county record. Was he in either of the '97 or '01 touring squads?
I'm pretty sure he played for Yorkshire in both seasons, so no.
 

Red

The normal awards that everyone else has
Ah yeah he was super young and had that going for him. But that's a long run of poor form considering there was so much other talent chomping at the bit for a spot. It wasn't an English team he was staying in, it was an Australian one. I guess the fact we pretty much won everything maybe meant we could take luxuries and let a perceived prodigy have many chances. ended up the right call in the end i guess

and re the Bevan/Love stuff, well Bevan would have had a lot of work to do considering he'd already done so much damage to his batting average in '97 haha

Voges still averaged 50 or so when he began his Bradmanesque run, Bevan averaged a tick under 30 and from several more tests too

I guess Love very well could have if he was given 15 tests. Even Hodge was looking the goods in his short career
I've always thought Hodge was the hardest done by of all that lot. Should've played 100 tests and averaged 50 and would've been remembered as close enough to an ATG imo.


I'd happily watch him bat all day.
 

Lillian Thomson

Hall of Fame Member
Speaking of Australians who did well in County Cricket and could have played more Tests has anyone mentioned Stuart Law. Top class batsman. I know I could read the thread to find out, but it’s late.
 

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