Viv Richards Voted as County Cricket's Greatest Overseas Player.

[tony p]

The B.B.C. have had a Poll by their users as too has been the greatest ever overseas player.

Viv won with 43.2%, ahead of Clive Lloyd on 9.2% and Sir Richard Hadlee in 3rd on 8.5%.

I know Viv was good , but i don't think he was that much better. ( probably deserved it, but not by that margin)

Counties nominated 4 overseas players by fan votes, with one player from each team making it to the end.

Malcolm Marshall only got 7% of the vote , Mike Procter 5%, Michael Holding 1%, and counties Leic, ( Brian Davison), Durham, ( David Boon), & Middx,( desmond haynes), got 0%.

Some of the finest overseas players didn't even make it to the final.

No Sobers, B.Richards, Walsh, Zaheer, P.Kirsten, Rice, Mushtaq Ahmed, some counties having a difficult selection.

Personally, i would have had Procter at 1, ( he was known as Proctershire) after all. Barry Richards at 2, Courtney Walsh at 3, Viv at 4, Glenn Turner, and Sir Richard Hadlee.
Obviously, B .Richards and Walsh weren't able to be picked, which i think makes it a flawed vote.

All OVERSEAS PLAYERS SHOULD HAVE BEEN AVAILABLE TO VOTE FOR.

Do you think Viv Deserved it.

 

[mr_mister]

What were Viv's county stats?

I know Darren Lehmann and Mark Waugh's were pretty damn solid

 

[a massive zebra]

What were Viv's county stats?

I know Darren Lehmann and Mark Waugh's were pretty damn solid

Viv made 14,698 runs for Somerset @ 49.82 with 47 hundreds and 3,382 runs for Glamorgan @ 46.97 with 10 hundreds. Overall 18,080 runs @ 49.26 with 57 hundreds.

Darren Lehmann's stats are miles better - 8,871 runs @ 68.76 with 26 centuries.

Mark Waugh made 9,682 runs @ 59.73 with 27 centuries.

 

[smash84]

Did Wasim or Waqar make the list?

I remember Waqar being fantastic for Glamorgan, Wasim too did fairly well with Lancashire IIRC.

 

[tony p]

What were Viv's county stats?

I know Darren Lehmann and Mark Waugh's were pretty damn solid

Lehmann's county stats, First-class for Yorkshire, 88 matches, 8871 runs@68.76, 26 cent, 43 fifties, he got 3% of the vote.

Waqar didn't make the final cut at either Glam or Surrey, Viv was picked as Glam. overseas player as well as Somerset's despite playing only playing for 2 season's there, and Sangakkara getting the Surrey nod over him.

I see A Massive Zebra has already posted this.

 

[a massive zebra]

Did Wasim or Waqar make the list?

I remember Waqar being fantastic for Glamorgan, Wasim too did fairly well with Lancashire IIRC.

Wasim got 374 wickets @ 21.65 for Lancashire. Respectable but not super impressible when you consider his reputation, much like Richards.

Waqar got 232 wickets for Surrey @ 18.90 with 20 5s and 80 wickets for Glamorgan @ 24.35 with 3 5s. Overall 312 wickets @ 20.30 with 23 5s.

 

[BoyBrumby]

I think "brand recognition" was probably in the great man's favour.

He was probably the best batsman in the world for a good portion of his Somerset tour of duty, but wasn't necessarily the best batsman in the world for his county.

 

[Bijed]

What were Viv's county stats?

I know Darren Lehmann and Mark Waugh's were pretty damn solid

I think these stats potentially include tour matches as well as normal CC matches.

Viv: 240 matches, 18,080 runs @ 49.26 with 57 tons
Lehmann: 88 matches, 8,871 runs @ 68.76 with 26 tons
Waugh: 82 matches, 6,690 runs @ 59.73 with 22 tons
Hussey: 60 matches. 6,710 @72.93 with 19 tons

I threw in Hussey because when I was a child who used to love flicking through the scorecards on Ceefax, he always seemed to make a big score and I always wondered why he didn't play for England... I'm honestly not sure I realised he was Australian until the 2006/07 Ashes lol.

Edit: Haha, no-one had replied to MrMister when I started typing this post

 

[smash84]

Wasim got 374 wickets @ 21.65 for Lancashire. Respectable but not super impressible when you consider his reputation, much like Richards.

Fair enough, Wasim did play with Lancs for a decade and so was wondering if he even ended up making the list.

 

[grecian]

Lehmann's county stats, First-class for Yorkshire, 88 matches, 8871 runs@68.76, 26 cent, 43 fifties, he got 3% of the vote.

Waqar didn't make the final cut at either Glam or Surrey, Viv was picked as Glam. overseas player as well as Somerset's despite playing only playing for 2 season's there, and Sangakkara getting the Surrey nod over him.

I see A Massive Zebra has already posted this.

The Fact is Viv scored more than double the runs. Yet it always comees down to with Viv, if you saw him play you know why. The Glamorgan thing surprised, 38% of the vote, when he spent 2 seasons past his best there, just goes to show. It's an utterly unscientific method, but there ya go.

He has always elicited strong responses on Cricketweb, because Stat-wise he generally doesn't compare. Should be said batting in the 70s and 80s on three day pitches was a lot harder then Lehmann's time, but Viv did play half is matches at Taunton.

Hadlee was great, but arguably not the best all-rounder at Notts at the time.

 

[BoyBrumby]

I see Glenn Turner got the nod for Worcs, which with (according to the Beeb) 22,298 runs at an average of 52.09 is fair enough.

Be interesting to know what Hick's stats were before he became English though. 7 year qualification period back then, so a fairly decent sample size.

Willing to be he did better as an overseas player...

 

[a massive zebra]

The Fact is Viv scored more than double the runs. Yet it always comees down to with Viv, if you saw him play you know why. The Glamorgan thing surprised, 38% of the vote, when he spent 2 seasons past his best there, just goes to show. It's an utterly unscientific method, but there ya go.

He has always elicited strong responses on Cricketweb, because Stat-wise he generally doesn't compare. Should be said batting in the 70s and 80s on three day pitches was a lot harder then Lehmann's time, but Viv did play half is matches at Taunton.

That didn't stop Geoff Boycott scoring 32,570 runs @ 57.85 with 103 centuries for Yorkshire in a career that very much overlapped with Richards, while playing his home matches on a far more challenging wicket than Taunton.

 

[tony p]

I see Glenn Turner got the nod for Worcs, which with (according to the Beeb) 22,298 runs at an average of 52.09 is fair enough.

Be interesting to know what Hick's stats were before he became English though. 7 year qualification period back then, so a fairly decent sample size.

Willing to be he did better as an overseas player...

I'm not sure Hick was eligible, the other Worc. players who their supporters could have voted for were, Ron Headley, Tom Moody & Vanburn Holder.

 

[trundler]

Doesn't Procter win this hands down

 

[grecian]

Got to say another thing that people from today( I am very much from yesterday) probably underestimate was the effect on Public Opinion and County fans of One-day stuff, Sunday League was on terrestrial, well every Sunday, even during Test matches, because of the rest day. Millions watched the final days of these one day matches, and there would be huge hype, hence why Llloyd is second too, with Lanky's one-day success during his time.

 

[grecian]

That didn't stop Geoff Boycott scoring 32,570 runs @ 57.85 with 103 centuries for Yorkshire in a career that very much overlapped with Richards, while playing his home matches on a far more challenging wicket than Taunton.

I am merely talking about the comparisons between Richards, Hussey, Lehmann, and the like, but in the end as I say stats are incidental.

 

[mr_mister]

Yeah I too would like to know Hick's FC average before tests nerfed it a bit. With the reputation he had as England's potential saviour before he flopped I wouldn't be suprised if it was north of 65 before he finally became english

and that's crazy that Lehmann nearly averaged 70. I didn't think anything about his technique would be especially suited to English conditions, I thought his ability against spin was meant to be his biggest strength (averaged 45 in Asia in tests compared to 39 in Australia)

Either way it's a bit odd he didn't get a single test in England with that county record. Was he in either of the '97 or '01 touring squads?

 

[a massive zebra]

I see Glenn Turner got the nod for Worcs, which with (according to the Beeb) 22,298 runs at an average of 52.09 is fair enough.

Be interesting to know what Hick's stats were before he became English though. 7 year qualification period back then, so a fairly decent sample size.

Willing to be he did better as an overseas player...

Graeme Hick's runs, average and hundreds for Worcestershire between 1984 and 1990 were:

1984 82 @ ∞, 0 100s
1985 664 @ 47.42, 2 100s
1986 1,934 @ 64.46, 6 100s
1987 1,868 @ 53.37, 8 100s
1988 2,443 @ 76.34, 9 100s
1989 1,595 @ 53.16, 5 100s
1990 2,273 @ 90.92, 8 100s

So a total of 10,859 runs @ 65.41 with 38 centuries.

 

[mr_mister]

hehe my north of 65 blind guess was right on the money!

that's very impressive for old Hickey. Really promised a lot didn't he

 

[BoyBrumby]

That didn't stop Geoff Boycott scoring 32,570 runs @ 57.85 with 103 centuries for Yorkshire in a career that very much overlapped with Richards, while playing his home matches on a far more challenging wicket than Taunton.

The Fact is Viv scored more than double the runs. Yet it always comees down to with Viv, if you saw him play you know why. The Glamorgan thing surprised, 38% of the vote, when he spent 2 seasons past his best there, just goes to show. It's an utterly unscientific method, but there ya go.

He has always elicited strong responses on Cricketweb, because Stat-wise he generally doesn't compare. Should be said batting in the 70s and 80s on three day pitches was a lot harder then Lehmann's time, but Viv did play half is matches at Taunton.

Hadlee was great, but arguably not the best all-rounder at Notts at the time.

Think grecian hits the nail on the head here.

Comparing Richards's output to Boycott's is like deciding whether you'd prefer to be given a fiver whilst having your balls tickled or a tenner whilst getting a bat in the face repeatedly.

One ends up further in the black in the latter scenario, but is missing something fundamental about entertainment.