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*Unofficial* New Zealand Black Caps Thread

The Hutt Rec

International Debutant
Anyone started speculating what our 15 man squad for CWC 19 is gonna look like?

I'd say the givens are:

Guptill
Williamson (c)
Taylor
Boult
Southee
Santner

Then the other 9 i assume it's going to be something like:

Munro
Latham (wk)
CdG
Sodhi
Nicholls
Ferguson
Chapman
Phillips (wk)
Anderson
Surely Henry would have to be there.
 

SteveNZ

International Vice-Captain
Anyone started speculating what our 15 man squad for CWC 19 is gonna look like?

I'd say the givens are:

Guptill
Williamson (c)
Taylor
Boult
Southee
Santner

Then the other 9 i assume it's going to be something like:

Munro
Latham (wk)
CdG
Sodhi
Nicholls
Ferguson
Chapman
Phillips (wk)
Anderson
Will have a crack. Gup Kane Taylor Boult Southee Santner Sodhi Latham CdG Munro Nicholls Ferguson Henry Seifert Chapman.

Can't see too many surprises, ala Grant Elliott out of the blue. The only one I'd think was anywhere near the picture is Will Young, although he had a fairly putrid Ford Trophy. Astle might be in the mix, but it's England in May - not ideal for him. You'd be looking to go Boult Southee Henry Ferguson, given Santner showed he can bat at 6 and CdG can bat 7, finish and also do a job with the ball in those conditions. The Munro experiment didn't always work but hopefully he gets a few more ODIs at the start of the summer to show his wares - he's working under Ponting in the IPL and apparently his head is spinning with all the great knowledge he's taking off R.T Ponting. I'd happily not see Nicholls batting 5 in colours but he's done enough/others haven't done enough.
 

Mr Miyagi

Banned
The idea that Australia would actually go to NZ for boxing day is utterly absurd, will never happen and rightly so. If they want to play Australia then, it's the MCG or nothing
Lets paraphrase this type of sentiment into actual relevant contemporary topics:

"The idea that India would actually go to Australia for a day-night test is utterly absurd, will never happen this tour and rightly so. If they want to play India in Adelaide this year, its daytime or nothing."

So I guess you wholeheartedly support the BCCI stance for the upcoming tour?

But personally, I wholeheartedly agree with your viewpoint re the Boxing Day test. It has a proud annual rtadition currently dating back to 1990. Justin Bieber wasn't even born then. One which SA now shares. And I think that NZC should also share. All 3 teams should be at home for Boxing Day playing cricket if not all 3 nations can agree to reciprocate fairly. Now I know not all NZC fans share the views I do re Melbourne on Dec 26, I admit that I am possibly against the grain on this. But I do not think on principle that NZC should be doing CA any favours over the holiday period ever again unless getting something significant back in return, which CA does not give anyone outside of England and India ever. I don't see it as many do of Cricket Australia dothing its cap in respect to NZC performances of late, I see it as weak and pathetic NZC management failing and being subservient at its own financial expense against trying to establish and build upon our our own home summer cricketing traditions and giving NZC fans locally games at the local grounds to watch. I don't even mind whether its an ODI at the Mount or a test at Hagley. Just give NZC fans something local over this time of the year.

http://www.espncricinfo.com/series/...lia-vs-Sri-Lanka-1st-Match-aus-tri-series-cb/

Deano, a Victorian, would have totally tonned up if it hadn't rained. But didn't Ranatunga play well? Sanath didn't even bowl!
 
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Prince EWS

Global Moderator
Munro, Guptill, Kane, Ross, CdG, Santner, Sodhi, Boult should all go.

The rest is wide open.
Southee will definitely go. He shouldn't really be locked in but he will be. Worst case scenario for him is that he finds himself outside the eleven by that point.

I agree otherwise though. At this stage you'd pencil in Nicholls and Latham too but they could definitely find themselves left out if they didn't perform between now and the time the squad is announced.
 

Mr Miyagi

Banned
Southee will definitely go. He shouldn't really be locked in but he will be. Worst case scenario for him is that he finds himself outside the eleven by that point.

I agree otherwise though. At this stage you'd pencil in Nicholls and Latham too but they could definitely find themselves left out if they didn't perform between now and the time the squad is announced.
More or less agree, but Southee has been bowling well at the death for RCB of late, and death overs has been a weakness for NZC of late re: support for Boult, who may be better used in a more attacking role anyway. So Southee may well be on the up and up. Or I am thinking wishfully?

Lockie frustrates me, he keeps producing good domestic numbers, and then gets humbled in internationals. But I like many of you saw Milne bowling 130km/h in India and was disappointed. I firmly believe that KW does not trust Astle to bowl pressure overs, despite his runs in an ODI game vs WI this will count against him. But he may get opportunities before squad selection to prove himself. And playing Sodhi and Santner both challenges team balance wihtout Kuggeliejn or worse, Doug Bracewell in the seam team, and yet I acknowledge Santner's run of batting form against England this year.

The main caveat I have is that an over a year away is still a long time for CdG. I understand he has performed admirably in tests and has earned his spot in that team. But his value in a limited overs team, despite his fantastic stats, is really still relying on Munro to bowl out the 10 over quota and one solitary win vs Pakistan.

Now I get that right now, the challengers are a domestic and dropped out of form Jimmy Neesham, who none of us right now want to imagine playing for NZ, an excessive spin option of Devecich that is still hard for many to stomach, and a post-injury Corey Anderson, who has done next to nothing post surgery. But Hesson could very well find a diamond in the rough ala Elliot in 2015, even if Andy Ellis starts loooking like an international cricketer (perhaps again?). This spot is wide open but worse, it influences who else is selected in the squad of XV.

So this far out out, I think Guptil, KW, Taylor, Santner, Boult, Southee book their visas now. Henry should enquire as to the fees. But if Munro gets dropped, that effects CdG, Sodhi has to beat off Astle and allround factors, and the rest of them are up for grabs. Even Latham.

If Scott Kuggeliejn has a fit and in form home summer, he could be the pivital monkey wrench in the works to how we currently as NZC fans think about the NZ odi XI. Again, this could be wishful thinking as I know he has a propensity to give away cheap runs in betweeen his brilliance. If Hamish Bennett has another in form season, I wouldn't discount him as a possible tourist.

So over a year away to the Cup, and Hesson's hunger for success, I wouldn't be locking in too many certainties just yet. I believe Hesson ideally wants to bat deep and have 6 legitimate bowling options. That will influence his selection choices. Last world cup he had Vettori batting at 8, and Anderson and Elliot as 5th and 6th bowlers. Now he may try a new formula, but he is on record as liking batting deep, and he is on record as liking 6 options for bowling. So I think its far too far out to pick a team accurately. This is the guy who saw a possible international future for Anaru Kitchen, and recalled Grant Elliot previously and Todd Astle recently. Hesson wants balance, surplus bowling options yet batting deep. This effects so many places in the eleven besides top order bats like KW and Taylor, as well as bowlers like Boult, Southee with possibly Henry in support. But Santner if fit, makes the XV, he has more than earned it.

So I'm 6/7 supporting Prince EWS and if I tossed a coin on CDG, I'm more than 50/50 agreeing with Prince on 7/7 - but we have a home summer to decide.
 
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TheBrand

U19 Cricketer
I 100% agree about KW not trusting Astle to bowl pressure overs and even if he doesn't trust Sodhi to do it either, Sodhi's had a lot more international experience. If were to pick an XI based on now I think it would look something like this

Guptill
Munro
KW (c)
Taylor
Latham (wk)
Nicholls/Chapman/Someone else.
CdG
Santner
Southee
Henry/Ferguson/Sodhi (dependent on conditions)
Boult

That's batting deep and 6 even 7 bowling options.
 
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Mr Miyagi

Banned
I 100% agree about KW not trusting Astle to bowl pressure overs and even if he doesn't trust Sodhi to do it either, Sodhi's had a lot more international experience. If were to pick an XI based on now I think it would look something like this

Guptill
Munro
KW (c)
Taylor
Latham (wk)
Nicholls/Chapman/Someone else.
CdG
Santner
Southee
Henry/Ferguson/Sodhi (dependent on conditions)
Boult

That's batting deep and 6 even 7 bowling options.
Good team. But I really wouldn't lock in Munro and or CdG as both depend on each other right now to bowl the required overs, Nor would I lock in Latham nor would I think that Henry/Ferusson and Sodhi all make the squad as guarantees. I get the last 3 are contingencies and I agree with your thinking there, but not all those 3 with Nicholls/Chapman/Someone else is likely as that is the entire 15, and overlooks that claims of Devecich, Astle, Bennett or anyone else who may make a claim including Blundell and Seifert. I just think its too far out to form the squad, and I don't mind that, as we get a large part of the home summer to decide. And I want to see some trialling of talent vs India. Is that within the timeframe to lock in XVs?
 
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The Hutt Rec

International Debutant
Henry really should get a chance ahead of Southee in our next ODI series after Southee's 2 wickets @128 in the five game England series.
 

Mr Miyagi

Banned
Henry really should get a chance ahead of Southee in our next ODI series after Southee's 2 wickets @128 in the five game England series.
Noone doubts Henry with the new and newish ball. The determinative question for me is - can he outbowl Southee in overs 40- to 50 against top opposition?
 
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TheBrand

U19 Cricketer
Noone doubts Henry with the new and newish ball. The determinative question for me is - can he outbowl Southee in overs 40- to 50 against top opposition?
and in swinging conditions in England most likely as well.

I think judging by past World Cups squads get announced about 4-6 weeks before the start of the tournament, so India should be in there for sure. We should have our likely 15 locked in by then too though I think.
 

Mr Miyagi

Banned
and in swinging conditions in England most likely as well.

I think judging by past World Cups squads get announced about 4-6 weeks before the start of the tournament, so India should be in there for sure. We should have our likely 15 locked in by then too though I think.
Yeah, despite it being a white Kookaburra in England 2019, I think your cricketing brain is well wired. Nuanced thinking is defintely part of the selection dilemma. But I nevertheless keep a caveat over the final spot/s until announcement. Hesson isn't adverse to a surprise selection against mainstream. And I think India will make or break at very least 1 hopeful tourist if not more.

But I agree with your main sentiments 100%
 
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The Hutt Rec

International Debutant
Noone doubts Henry with the new and newish ball. The determinative question for me is - can he outbowl Southee in overs 40- to 50 against top opposition?
Since the last World Cup Henry is averaging 28, Southee is averaging 43 - that would be my over-riding consideration. More wickets up top means less problems in the final ten ... and Henry hasn't been terribly bad in the past, apart from his terrible two matches in Australia, which have been held against him ever since.

Economy rates since the last World Cup are 5.8 for Henry vs 5.7 for Southee.

Really think he deserves a chance to show his stuff ahead of Southee for a sustained period.
 

Mr Miyagi

Banned
Since the last World Cup Henry is averaging 28, Southee is averaging 43 -

Really think he deserves a chance to show his stuff ahead of Southee for a sustained period.

For me, I'd want more info about the opposition they played, and I'd be favouring E/R rates against top opposition over wickets. Someone has to bowl the death - was Henry bowling the death against those opposition, and who was he playing? Because iirc rightly or wrongly Southee has been favoured over Henry against the big teams (especially those at full strength). And I don't want inexperience bowling at the death against top teams, but that's just me.
 

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