Two-tiered Test System - Lawry

[Athlai]

On what grounds do you believe Bangladesh are on track or will improve?

Regardless of how many tests they have played, they have shown nothing on the cricket field as to why they should still be playing test cricket.

They haven't even produced ONE exceptionally decent player - which is easier to do than produce a competitive team.

On the Test scene they have done little, yet on the ODI scene they are currently good enough to beat any team IMO. All the players need is to develop better in the longer game, to mentally keep their heads down and hold onto their wickets.

Remember they almost beat Australia.

I think when they are in NZ they will be quite capable of winning a few sessions, while I am not declaring them as world beaters I do believe that against the lesser Test nations (West Indies, NZ, Zim) we will be seeing Bangladesh find some success against them within the next 4 years.

We can't just suddenly expect them to get better especially if all of a sudden we decide to send them a step backward.

I think they are a nation full of talent and can use all the encouragement we can give them.

I will certainly go to as many Tests as possible when they are here.

 

[silentstriker]

Bangladesh playing test cricket is a joke.

Any of our state sides could beat them easily.

I wouldn't be surprised if Aussie state sides could beat most Test nations, especially in Australia.

 

[andruid]

2007.
A League
Australia
England
South Africa
India
Sri Lanka

B League
Pakistan
New Zealand
West Indies
Bangladesh
Zimbabwe

2005
A League
1. Australia
2. England
3. India
4. South Africa
5. New Zealand

B League
6. Sri Lanka
7. Pakistan
8. West Indies
9. Zimbabwe
10. Bangladesh


Maybe if was on a 2 year rotation.. 5 match series..
promotion relegation series played at the home of League A team.

That system leave the same old 10 existing test nations intact in fact making it even more difficult for the weaker test nations to benefit financially from playing the stronger ones while the top 5 begin to pull away from the rest creating a gap in quality not too disimilar from the current gap in quality between Tet teams and Associate teams.

Maybe it would be alot easier to declare the current test championship the A league and make the Current Intercontinental Cup the B league with the two intercontinental; cup finalists playing the two bottom ranked teams in the Test championship in a Promotion/Relegation playoff series.

 

[Lillian Thomson]

If you take the top 5 teams and 2 are relegated England are just as likely to be relegated as any other, so we then scrap the Ashes for at least four years until they get promoted again..........not going to happen, not least because the TV companies would be unimpressed.

 

[slugger]

boo woo...

 

[Chemosit]

I think this is a suggestion with merit, especially as Andruid proposes with the top 2 from the bottom league playing off against the bottom two from the top league. Or maybe even just top B v bottom A.

Regards the argument about top teams not funding the struggling ones -
How do you think places like Windies and Zim manage to stay afloat financially?

May as well open the system up to allow for a growing nation to make the step up. A play off ensures that they have to beat a current Test side to do that and if they can, they should be entitled to move up. Likewise if a current Test side loses their position it is because they are not good enough to hold onto it so should not deserve it in the first place.

 

[Matt79]

Can you seriously see the ICC signing onto a set up that could sometime in the next few years see India relegated to the 2nd Division, and therefore be presumably stuck not playing Australia, England, and maybe even Pakistan, if those three managed to stay above the line? There aren't enough effigies in the world to cover that contingency...

Should say, I'm not saying I think India are in the bottom half now, or any more likely to dramatically decline than any of the teams, but that would be the possible outcome that would give them the most pause.

 

[slugger]

I dont think India would ever put themselves in that position... and still there would be a promotion relagation series between top and bottom.. so they or any team in the top group get a second chance.

i believe a 2 tiered system would generate an overall improvement in tough games.. while teams in the top group dont want to finish up last and teams in the bottom group trying to stay at the top for that do or die promotion relagation match...

 

[Manee]

Much more effort should be put into reducing the number of international matches between teams than coming up with new and innovative Test systems which will never come to fruition.

 

[slugger]

Much more effort should be put into reducing the number of international matches between teams .

elobrate?.. when nz, wi, zim , bang are only getting between 2-3 match series while the big guns keep getting the 5 match series.. wheres the fairness in that! the gap just keeps widening....ALL teams either play the same amount.. or you introduce the above concept..

 

[Craig]

I don't think New Zealand are Test standard right ATM.

 

[slugger]

even when we had hadlee and crowe 80's period we only got 3 at most... seems to me no time is the right time

 

[Janus]

2nd Division

9. Zimbabwe
10. Bangladesh
11. Kenya
12. Scotland
13. Canada? etc.......

Isn't that being very unfair to Ireland? after all we have won the last two intercontinental cups. And anyway, Canada are sliding down in terms of quality at the moment so wouldn't even be worth the bother.

Really the issue should come down the the fact that this idea of "test Status" and "associate status" are outmoded forms of thinking. the whole thing needs to be opened up to create a more equal system. Their should be promotion/relegation matches between the weakest test side by rank and the winner of the intercontinental cup with the right to play Test cricket as the prize. Cruel it may be, but it gives international cricket a chance of more games instead of Zimbabwe being boycotted all the time.

Hypothetically though I'd have a two tier system as thus:

First Tier
Australia
England
India
South Africa
Sri Lanka
Pakistan

Second Tier
New Zealand
West Indies
Bangladesh
Zimbabwe
Ireland
Kenya

Working on a two year cycle with Bottom of the first tier eventually playing-off against Top of the Second tier. Not my advised idea but this is how I'd have done it.

 

[slugger]

im all for it.. and even though um a kiwi it sucks to be us.. but its all relivant to the moment in time..

.. the future world tours programme is fully completed by 09/10 so the system could be intigated by then..

.. if by chance england and ozzie find themselves in a different tier, they still can have there ashes series but the result will not effectt the tier system its a series to dertimin who holds the ashes..

 

[river end]

Isn't that being very unfair to Ireland? after all we have won the last two intercontinental cups. And anyway, Canada are sliding down in terms of quality at the moment so wouldn't even be worth the bother.

Really the issue should come down the the fact that this idea of "test Status" and "associate status" are outmoded forms of thinking. the whole thing needs to be opened up to create a more equal system. Their should be promotion/relegation matches between the weakest test side by rank and the winner of the intercontinental cup with the right to play Test cricket as the prize. Cruel it may be, but it gives international cricket a chance of more games instead of Zimbabwe being boycotted all the time.

Hypothetically though I'd have a two tier system as thus:

First Tier
Australia
England
India
South Africa
Sri Lanka
Pakistan

Second Tier
New Zealand
West Indies
Bangladesh
Zimbabwe
Ireland
Kenya

Working on a two year cycle with Bottom of the first tier eventually playing-off against Top of the Second tier. Not my advised idea but this is how I'd have done it.

Ok, if you want Ireland then - "IRELAND" 2nd tier. It was just an example. Hence the "etc..."

That's a good set up. New Zealand and West Indies have fallen so far that unfortunately as it stands they start in the 2nd division.

I would apply it to the 3rd tier as well. Scotland, USA, Argentina etc...


One major problem is cricket is such a conservative, stick in the mud establishment that it may be difficult to get this off the ground - many people may find excuses for it not to happen.

 

[Matt79]

I think the better solution is to get rid of all but the top 8 countries - then it won't be a drama getting around to everyone... (but seriously)

 

[Craig]

Most NSW, Victorian, Qld, WA etc....1st grade sides could probably beat them too.

If that isn't hyperbole then what is?

I wouldn't be surprised if Aussie state sides could beat most Test nations, especially in Australia.

I doubt it. Queensland this season have been quite dire in the Pura Cup and England man-for-man would smash them. If we're talking full strength with no internationals then it is a different story. South Australia are just crap plain and simple.

 

[NUFAN]

They haven't even produced ONE exceptionally decent player - which is easier to do than produce a competitive team.

Syed Rasel is gun.

 

[andruid]

Isn't that being very unfair to Ireland? after all we have won the last two intercontinental cups. And anyway, Canada are sliding down in terms of quality at the moment so wouldn't even be worth the bother.

Really the issue should come down the the fact that this idea of "test Status" and "associate status" are outmoded forms of thinking. the whole thing needs to be opened up to create a more equal system. Their should be promotion/relegation matches between the weakest test side by rank and the winner of the intercontinental cup with the right to play Test cricket as the prize. Cruel it may be, but it gives international cricket a chance of more games instead of Zimbabwe being boycotted all the time.

Hypothetically though I'd have a two tier system as thus:

First Tier
Australia
England
India
South Africa
Sri Lanka
Pakistan

Second Tier
New Zealand
West Indies
Bangladesh
Zimbabwe
Ireland
Kenya

Working on a two year cycle with Bottom of the first tier eventually playing-off against Top of the Second tier. Not my advised idea but this is how I'd have done it.

can i also add that the ICC also need to act faster and harder to make sure that the teams that would end up in the second tier of this competition and don't as yet heave strong enough domestic level cricket do get there soon. I can't say I know too much about Ireland but I don't think they have a strong enough domestic structure to expect to produce the same level players that they have in their current crop of players and the same could be said of Kenya and to some extent Bangladesh, who despite their traditional cricket links with India and Pakistan did not have a very base of multi-day cricket, yet on the other have in order to set these things up these teams will need greater amounts of financial investment than they have know something that a a two tier Test system could help.

 

[Janus]

can i also add that the ICC also need to act faster and harder to make sure that the teams that would end up in the second tier of this competition and don't as yet heave strong enough domestic level cricket do get there soon. I can't say I know too much about Ireland but I don't think they have a strong enough domestic structure to expect to produce the same level players that they have in their current crop of players and the same could be said of Kenya and to some extent Bangladesh, who despite their traditional cricket links with India and Pakistan did not have a very base of multi-day cricket, yet on the other have in order to set these things up these teams will need greater amounts of financial investment than they have know something that a a two tier Test system could help.

Honestly, Ireland's domestic system isn't up to it. Personally I'd prefer the idea of a combined England-Ireland-Scotland-Wales Domestic system as it could produce better results faster than Ireland and Scotland simply developing their systems of their own accord.

Incidentally, of the current crop I'd reckon that Ireland are easily the best multi-day team in the associate realm. I'd still think that Kenya are the better ODI side though.