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Two-tiered Test System - Lawry

Burgey

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Bill Lawry was on Sydney radio station 2KY this morning.

In a pretty interesting chat, he described Shane Warne's call for Michael Clarke to replace Gilly as vice-captain now as "a joke" because Clarke still has to cement his place in the test side (fair point too imo).

When asked about the future of test cricket, Lawry indicated his belief that there should be a two-tier system in tests with promotion and relegation. He wasn't asked to elaborate on detailed structure, but I thought this idea may have some merit, despite there being some problems with it.

There are currently ten test-playing countries. If the ICC set up a points-type system (and they already rank the sides) over home-and away series for a (say) 3 or 4 year period, could the top 2 sides from the second tier go up, and the bottom 2 from the top tier go down?

This system may achieve a greater eveness of competition between countries, whilst the incentive of promotion/ not being demoted may inspire teams to consistently play at something approaching their best.

I see several real problems, of course. The first is the revenue which might be lost to some of the more struggling nations in missing out on having the better sides come and tour their countries and generating revenue from gate takings. Could the ICC come to the party here by having some of the richer nations fostering international development by subsidising lesser-developed countries?

Second is the time involved - waiting 3 or 4 years for promotion is a long time, it's not like the EPL football where teams go up and down every season and have an almost immediate chance to get promoted the following year.

Third is how do you improve the quality of play in the sides in the second tier if they are not coming up against better quality opposition and learning to cope with the pressures whcih that entails?

I'm sure there are lots of other complexities, but in any event it's something which should be discussed imo.
 

howardj

International Coach
In a pretty interesting chat, he described Shane Warne's call for Michael Clarke to replace Gilly as vice-captain now as "a joke" because Clarke still has to cement his place in the test side (fair point too imo).

.
Surely a juvenile, mean-spirited square-up for Gilchrist leap frogging Warney for VC, after only a year in the Test team. It's well known that Warne's regard for Gilchrist is not that great.

Personally, I think Gilly should be retained as VC for as long as he is in the team. There's plenty of time for Clarke.
 

Lillian Thomson

Hall of Fame Member
Bill Lawry was on Sydney radio station 2KY this morning.

In a pretty interesting chat, he described Shane Warne's call for Michael Clarke to replace Gilly as vice-captain now as "a joke" because Clarke still has to cement his place in the test side (fair point too imo).

When asked about the future of test cricket, Lawry indicated his belief that there should be a two-tier system in tests with promotion and relegation. He wasn't asked to elaborate on detailed structure, but I thought this idea may have some merit, despite there being some problems with it.

There are currently ten test-playing countries. If the ICC set up a points-type system (and they already rank the sides) over home-and away series for a (say) 3 or 4 year period, could the top 2 sides from the second tier go up, and the bottom 2 from the top tier go down?

This system may achieve a greater eveness of competition between countries, whilst the incentive of promotion/ not being demoted may inspire teams to consistently play at something approaching their best.

I see several real problems, of course. The first is the revenue which might be lost to some of the more struggling nations in missing out on having the better sides come and tour their countries and generating revenue from gate takings. Could the ICC come to the party here by having some of the richer nations fostering international development by subsidising lesser-developed countries?

Second is the time involved - waiting 3 or 4 years for promotion is a long time, it's not like the EPL football where teams go up and down every season and have an almost immediate chance to get promoted the following year.

Third is how do you improve the quality of play in the sides in the second tier if they are not coming up against better quality opposition and learning to cope with the pressures whcih that entails?

I'm sure there are lots of other complexities, but in any event it's something which should be discussed imo.
Terrible plan not even worthy of discussion..........if fact I think it rather digifies it calling it a plan.
 

howardj

International Coach
I don't think the two tiers is all that viable because it would attract negligible sponsorship dollars and little interest from broadcasters. Plus, it's hard to see how these teams would improve if they're playing amongst themselves.
 

burr

State Vice-Captain
Warne has never liked Gilchrist. In fact I can see the former turning into one of those sad old men that chirps constantly long after everyone has stopped taking him seriously.
 

Burgey

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Warne has never liked Gilchrist. In fact I can see the former turning into one of those sad old men that chirps constantly long after everyone has stopped taking him seriously.
a la Neil Harvey perhaps.
 

slugger

State Vice-Captain
I think this idea has some merit.. but its far to late.. it should have been implemented back in the 50's... the games too professional and corporate money/tv rights etc to do it now...
 

silentstriker

The Wheel is Forever
I like the plan - more competitive cricket, plus a great incentive and fear of moving up or down. Plus, with less teams, you could mandate that all series be five matches.
 

slugger

State Vice-Captain
2007.
A League
Australia
England
South Africa
India
Sri Lanka

B League
Pakistan
New Zealand
West Indies
Bangladesh
Zimbabwe

2005
A League
1. Australia
2. England
3. India
4. South Africa
5. New Zealand

B League
6. Sri Lanka
7. Pakistan
8. West Indies
9. Zimbabwe
10. Bangladesh


Maybe if was on a 2 year rotation.. 5 match series..
promotion relagation series played at the home of League A team.
 

river end

School Boy/Girl Cricketer
2007.
A League
Australia
England
South Africa
India
Sri Lanka

B League
Pakistan
New Zealand
West Indies
Bangladesh
Zimbabwe

2005
A League
1. Australia
2. England
3. India
4. South Africa
5. New Zealand

B League
6. Sri Lanka
7. Pakistan
8. West Indies
9. Zimbabwe
10. Bangladesh


Maybe if was on a 2 year rotation.. 5 match series..
promotion relagation series played at the home of League A team.

I don't think that's what Lawry means by 2 tier system.
I think he means most of the traditional nations in a division and the minnows in the next division.

More like;

1st Division

1. England
2. Australia
3. South Africa
4. West Indies
5. India
6. Pakistan
7. New Zealand
8. Sri Lanka

2nd Division

9. Zimbabwe
10. Bangladesh
11. Kenya
12. Scotland
13. Canada etc.......
 

slugger

State Vice-Captain
mmm doesnt change much then really duz it...but that would be a scary thing if one of the big 8 slipped down lol
 

river end

School Boy/Girl Cricketer
I see several real problems, of course. The first is the revenue which might be lost to some of the more struggling nations in missing out on having the better sides come and tour their countries and generating revenue from gate takings. Could the ICC come to the party here by having some of the richer nations fostering international development by subsidising lesser-developed countries?

Third is how do you improve the quality of play in the sides in the second tier if they are not coming up against better quality opposition and learning to cope with the pressures whcih that entails?

Revenue lost for struggling nations
The bottom line is, test cricket is not a charity event to generate money for minnow nations

Second tier quality
The problem is, if you assume that the 2nd tier is Bangladesh, Zimbabwe, Kenya and worse - these sides are so far off the pace NO amount of test cricket is going to help/make them improve as it stands.
Constantly being battered and never being in the contest is doing them no good.
Bangladesh have played 49 tests since they came in to test cricket and have just a solitary win - against a badly depleted Zimbabwe side. They are no better than when they started - they haven't even produced ONE world class player. Does anyone really think they are going to improve just staying there?

It's obviously their lack of tradition and domestic/grass roots areas that are their problem.

The ICC can start by having those countries' best players playing county cricket in England and grade cricket in Australia, for example.
 
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Athlai

Not Terrible
Revenue lost for struggling nations
The bottom line is, test cricket is not a charity event to generate money for minnow nations

Second tier quality
The problem is, if you assume that the 2nd tier is Bangladesh, Zimbabwe, Kenya and worse - these sides are so far off the pace NO amount of test cricket is going to help them improve as it stands.
Bangladesh have played 49 tests since they came in to test cricket and have just a solitary win - against a badly depleted Zimbabwe side.

It's obviously their lack of tradition and domestic/grass roots areas that are their problem.

The ICC can start by having those countries' best players playing county cricket in England and grade cricket in Australia, for example.
Na mate Bangladesh is suffering from too much too soon. If you play it by years then they are right on track in the developing Test nations, it's just that they seem worse due to how many Tests they have played.

Zimbabwe will also likely not always be 'depleted' and while I am skeptical they will improve anytime soon (though I do believe Bangers will) I also admit that I have no idea what the Test landscape will look like in ten years time, but I bet it won't be the same as it is today.
 

river end

School Boy/Girl Cricketer
On what grounds do you believe Bangladesh are on track or will improve?

Regardless of how many tests they have played, they have shown nothing on the cricket field as to why they should still be playing test cricket.

They haven't even produced ONE exceptionally decent player - which is easier to do than produce a competitive team.
 

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