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Top 3 players of Fast bowling in last 50 years ?

sunilz

International Debutant
Give same weightage to all types of pace bowling ( Swing, seam , Raw pace)

My list consists of Smith, Sachin and Viv Richards
 

sunilz

International Debutant
Yeah Ponting, Gavaskar , Lara, Chappell were the other 4 , I had in mind. There are many other players. But had to pick only 3.
 

OverratedSanity

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Wouldnt put Ponting up there if we're giving equal weightage to swing/seam as well. He was better than almost anyone vs pace and bounce.
 

subshakerz

International Debutant
In terms of not getting out, it has to be Steve Waugh, who succeeded against Walsh, Ambrose, Wasim, Waqar, Donald and Pollock. He was like a rock at the wicket.

In terms of ease of playing and attacking, I thought Ab Devilliers. He was the only bat I knew who could counter a rampaging Mitchell Johnson.

Sachin, Smith and Viv also contenders.
 

Fuller Pilch

Cricketer Of The Year
Viv - would bat with no helmet and smash fast bowlers.

Martin Crowe - owned Malcolm Marshall in 86/87 and the 2 Ws. Wasim said he was the best batsman he bowled to.

Ponting - had a presence at the crease (mini Viv in some ways) of dominance. Marks off for being Shane Bond's ODI bunny.
 

ankitj

Hall of Fame Member
I always felt Inzimam good against pace thing a bit of a myth conjured by Imran. McGrath could get him out with a tomato. Obviously had some success against Ambrose but not much else
Yeah, it was classic Imran not having enough heart to admire Tendulkar so he weaved a myth around the best Pakistan had at the time. He could have chosen Lara to praise to be more credible. Inzamam's number against SA and Aus (who consistently had best pace attack during his playing days) are pretty meh.
 

Slifer

International Regular
Imo:

Viv
Steve Waugh
Ricky Ponting

Clive Lloyd was pretty solid vs pace as well.
 

subshakerz

International Debutant
Yeah, it was classic Imran not having enough heart to admire Tendulkar so he weaved a myth around the best Pakistan had at the time. He could have chosen Lara to praise to be more credible. Inzamam's number against SA and Aus (who consistently had best pace attack during his playing days) are pretty meh.
I think it was Imrans way of encouraging his players by praising them to the hilt.
 

smash84

The Tiger King
Yeah, it was classic Imran not having enough heart to admire Tendulkar so he weaved a myth around the best Pakistan had at the time. He could have chosen Lara to praise to be more credible. Inzamam's number against SA and Aus (who consistently had best pace attack during his playing days) are pretty meh.
That isn't really true IMO. The problem with Imran is that he is biased towards "fearless" players and "match winners" hence his low rating for Zaheer Abbas and until 1988 WI tour, even Miandad, and his love for players like Viv Richards and Ian Chappell.

Also if he thinks somebody has potential, he will back them in the face of all opposition and common sense e.g. the Elahi guy in his playing days, Abdul Qadir (the greatest legspinner to every play until that time if Imran was to be taken at face value), and Malcolm Sami, to name just a few.

Incidentally he also backs the Punjab Chief Minister (a guy called Buzdar) who really sucks and calls him another Wasim Akram.

The point is, that's the way he has always functioned, and if he doesn't rate anybody in the beginning, he rarely changes his mind. His instincts have served him well in cricket, until they haven't and he's carried this problem all through his life.
 

ankitj

Hall of Fame Member
That isn't really true IMO
These things are perceptions. My perception of Imran is not of a large hearted individual when it comes to praising other cricketers unlike Wasim and Waqar. There is not much we can do to change subjective perceptions.
 

nightprowler10

Global Moderator
Yup I think smash has nailed it there, and I also agree Inzi was overrated against quality pace. He had very few issues against good pace bowlers but struggled mightily if they were able to generate variable bounce. Harmison, when he was bowling fire in 05/early 06, is a good example of that.
 

smash84

The Tiger King
These things are perceptions. My perception of Imran is not of a large hearted individual when it comes to praising other cricketers unlike Wasim and Waqar. There is not much we can do to change subjective perceptions.
If that is your perception, that is fair enough. Just that I have followed the guy for a VERY long time and know a lot more about him than pretty much any one on this forum, so I presented what I think is the problem. Which I believe doesn't have to do with his "large heartedness" or lack of it, but rather a problem with his own biases that he's carried all throughout.
 

ankitj

Hall of Fame Member
If that is your perception, that is fair enough. Just that I have followed the guy for a VERY long time and know a lot more about him than pretty much any one on this forum, so I presented what I think is the problem. Which I believe doesn't have to do with his "large heartedness" or lack of it, but rather a problem with his own biases that he's carried all throughout.
What you and I are saying is not all that different really. At the end, we are both saying that his opinion of other cricketers is not much to look at. He backs players to the hilt who are invariably Pakistani, which is all well because he cares deeply for Pakistani cricket. But he allows that to cloud his judgment of other cricketers. He also seems over eager to undermine and criticize Indian cricketers and cricket in general. Of course, he is not as inarticulate as Afridi so there can always be an argument made along the lines of "oh what he really means is ...". But from a pattern of his comments, and sometimes also facial expressions and body language, I sense a mean spiritedness that doesn't really suite a cricketer of his stature. Perceptions as I said, can't very objectively argue for it.
 

subshakerz

International Debutant
What you and I are saying is not all that different really. At the end, we are both saying that his opinion of other cricketers is not much to look at. He backs players to the hilt who are invariably Pakistani, which is all well because he cares deeply for Pakistani cricket. But he allows that to cloud his judgment of other cricketers. He also seems over eager to undermine and criticize Indian cricketers and cricket in general. Of course, he is not as inarticulate as Afridi so there can always be an argument made along the lines of "oh what he really means is ...". But from a pattern of his comments, and sometimes also facial expressions and body language, I sense a mean spiritedness that doesn't really suite a cricketer of his stature. Perceptions as I said, can't very objectively argue for it.
Respectfully disagree. Imran lauded Gavaskar to bo end. He was guilty of rating cricketers from his time though.

Read this excerpt from an article by Sanjar Manjrekar on Imran and you will have a new appreciation for his big heart when it came to cricket knowledge.


'The 1989 tour came and went. Imran didn't speak a word to me on the field through the four Tests. Once the series was over, though, Imran was lavish in his praise for me on every public platform. I realized now that to Imran the Sharjah incident might have been so trivial he possibly didn't even remember it. As with all great ambassadors of the game, it was good cricket that mattered to him. To get such admiration from my idol was the biggest prize for my performance in Pakistan.

Our next interaction came after I had a lukewarm tour of New Zealand. The moment he saw me he asked me, 'Why did you play Richard Hadlee off the back foot?' He told me I played Wasim and Waqar well because I was looking to move forward all the time. While it was sound technical advice, I was just floored that my hero liked my batting enough to follow that tour and be disappointed with my failures. This was a Pakistani following the progress of an Indian and wanting him to do well.

I was not the only one. This was the time Maninder Singh had developed the yips and had lost his run-up, his action, his zip. A prodigious talent with a beautiful action, Maninder was a shadow of himself now. After speaking to me, Imran headed straight to Maninder and asked him, 'Manni, what have you done to your bowling? Why did you change your action? There is no run-up now, nothing.'

Maninder tried to reason with him by saying he had lost his accuracy and had to shorten his run-up to regain the control, but Imran was having none of it. 'If I lose my accuracy I can't shorten my run-up,' Imran said. 'I will lose all my pace. This is not done. Go back to the original run-up and keep bowling at one stump, a thousand balls a day, and you will find your accuracy.'

Imran was not born to be a great. He had to work hard and put himself through tremendous grind to achieve greatness. Plus, he was a generous man to boot. These are the people who have a lot of cricket wisdom to share and pass on rather than the ridiculously talented cricketers.'

 

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