The Real Pioneer?

[Pap Finn Keighl]

It is when the rest of the world was batting at 50. King Richards was not from this world, btw.

Not entirely true.
Viv scored 85 % of his odi runs in the decade of 80s
Viv 46 avg 92 sr
Kapil 27 at 102, 131 innings
Abbas 51 at 87, 46 innings
Salim malik 33 at 86, 97 innings

 

[Flem274*]

was going to put srikkanth forward as well. i wonder how much further back we could go.

 

[AndrewB]

But it still doesn't make him the pioneer.

And Jayasurya-Kalu aren't pioneers either. They are remembered because they did it in a world cup successfully that they went onto win.

It's generous to say that Kaluwitharana was a success in the World Cup. His scores were:

0 (1b) v Zimbabwe (Jayasuriya 6 off 11, partnership 5; Gurusinha 87*, de Silva 91)
26 (16b) v India (Jayasuriya 79 off 76, partnership 53; Tillekeratne 70*, Ranatunga 46*)
33 (18b) v Kenya (Jayasuriya 44 off 27; partnership 83; de Silva 145, Gurusinha 84, Ranatunga 75*)
8 (3b) v England (Jayasuriya 82 off 44; partnership 12; Gurusinha 45)
0 (1b) v India (Jayasuriya 1 off 3; partnership 1; de Silva 66, Mahanama 58*)
6 (13b) v Australia (Jayasuriya 9 off 7; partnership 12; de Silva 107*, Gurusinha 65, Ranatunga 47*)

So against Test-playing teams, he succeeded (to any extent) 1 time out of 5. Even Jayasuriya only did twice, but at least he scored 70+ in his successes.

Kaluwitharana actually did much better in the B+H series in Australia just before the World Cup, where after a bad start he had scores of 77, 50, 20, 74 and 13 (at an overall strike rate of a run a ball).

 

[honestbharani]

It is Impossible to adjust the numbers from same era.

Yes, I am sure 80s and 90s were the same era in ODIs..

 

[honestbharani]

Not entirely true.
Viv scored 85 % of his odi runs in the decade of 80s
Viv 46 avg 92 sr
Kapil 27 at 102, 131 innings
Abbas 51 at 87, 46 innings
Salim malik 33 at 86, 97 innings

And who out of them are openers?

 

[Senile Sentry]

Explain context? IIRC India won the 1983 WC going at about 3 an over.

The context being Srikkanth strikes at around 68 in World Cup matches which is lower than his career SR.

A trend is needed to establish whether someone is a pioneer or not. That trend in case of Srikkanth is not there atleast in tour aments that mattered.

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

Yes, I am sure 80s and 90s were the same era in ODIs..

80s more batsman friendly than early 90s, I guess.

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

And who out of them are openers?

No opener breached 75 SR mark until 90s, hence the thread.

 

[Senile Sentry]

Weren't field restrictions introduced in 92 ?

 

[honestbharani]

No opener breached 75 SR mark until 90s, hence the thread.

And yet someone breached 70s and that is not good enough for you.

 

[honestbharani]

80s more batsman friendly than early 90s, I guess.

You obviously guess wrong. And try looking at field restrictions, bouncer restrictions, how many overs a bowler could bowl and how many overs the actual games were before coming up with completely wrong posts like this.

 

[honestbharani]

The context being Srikkanth strikes at around 68 in World Cup matches which is lower than his career SR.

A trend is needed to establish whether someone is a pioneer or not. That trend in case of Srikkanth is not there atleast in tour aments that mattered.

The context is that the 83 WC was played in England and a lot of the wickets were bowler friendly, and a SR of 65+ was high for that WC. He had a horrible 1992 WC which drags his figures down but the pioneering part was in the 80s. Try looking at those stats alone.

But I would not call Srikkanth the pioneer either. It was just the way he batted. I look at what Jaya and Kalu did in 1996 as more of a strategic move than them just playing that way all the time, coz they did not, or at least, Jaya did not. He used to bat at 6 and try and bat properly a lot of the time. So I do think the pioneer was Martin Crowe and his use of Greatbatch in 1992.

Sachin opening would have happened eventually as more and more teams started realizing the benefits of having their best batsmen bat up front in the order, with the stupd fielding restrictions and bouncer rules.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

Weren't field restrictions introduced in 92 ?

Yeah but they were in Australia, NZ from the early 80s after England put 9 fielders on the boundary v the Windies to stop them hitting a 4. Rules weren't uniform until 1992. I remember NZ playing ODIs in England in 1990 which were 55 overs not 50. Also Aus, NZ etc had coloured clothing but many other countries wore whites at home for ODIs (including 75, 79, 83, 87 CWCs).

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

And yet someone breached 70s and that is not good enough for you.

Because i am talking about pioneer of 85-90 SR (modern standard)

 

[pardus]

It is when the rest of the world was batting at 50. King Richards was not from this world, btw.

Talking about Viv & ODIs, I recall an article from an Indian magazine which went thus - "It was as if the ODI game was invented so that the world could see & marvel at the talent of Richards. His innovation was beyond compare. Either batsmen have it or they don't. Richards had an overdose of it. How else could you rationalize his walking out to Lenn Pascoe & Jeff Thomson, and hitting those express bowlers over cover for sixes?"

 

[honestbharani]

Because i am talking about pioneer of 85-90 SR (modern standard)

I think you have cherry picked numbers to ensure only one person fit your imaginary criteria of a pioneer. There is very little rationale or consistency in between your posts on this topic here. And the pioneer of 85-90+ SR is Viv Richards.

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

I think you have cherry picked numbers to ensure only one person fit your imaginary criteria of a pioneer. There is very little rationale or consistency in between your posts on this topic here. And the pioneer of 85-90+ SR is Viv Richards.

Viv, Kapil and Abbas IMO
None of them were openers.

 

[honestbharani]

Nah.. just Viv.

 

[Burgey]

England used Botham as a slogging opener as early as the 86/87 Perth Tournament they won, and at the 92 WC.

 

[stephen]

Australia have cited Jayasuriya in 96 as their inspiration for promoting Gilly to do the same for the next world cup.