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The man who saw it comming a light year away!!

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Legglancer

State Regular
marc71178 said:
I also pointed out the West Indies being robbed of 2 points they were certainties to get.

Then it's all 5 on the same number of points, and NRR would've left SL in a great deal of trouble.


How so ???? Sri Lanka ended With the 2 nd Highest NRR ????
 

Ringua

School Boy/Girl Cricketer
]
If you actually read what Bazza posted, he at no point said anything was impossible, merely that all 3 of the major Asian Nations have been hugely outclassed in South African and Australian conditions (which is true when they've toured those nations i recent times) and as such could be expected to struggle in the World Cup.Everything there is based on facts leading up to the competition, and his conclusion based on those facts was legitimate.
As i've said earlier he did arrive at conclusion based on "Selected Facts", one team for example did well in recent past in Australia, but that was overlooked.
Had the theorist targetted one asain team based on actual facts and weakness then it would have made sense but to write off all three of them was absurd , thus to say that the conclusion was legitimate is hilarious. There are 8 test playing nations(not counting Bang) of which one is Zimbabwe.The theorists was actually suggesting that none of the 3 asians would even reach the semis (thats what a poor World cup is), something which has not happened in atleast 3 previous world cup !!!



I was pointing out that have been a lot of surprises in the World Cup compared to what was expected prior to the Tournament.
Wha has those surprises to do with the topic?? India reaching the final wasn't a surprise, infact many former ex cricketers including Mark Waugh had tipped India to reach the final before the start of the tour!!
Nor was SL reaching semis a surprise either!

SA should've beaten them, and if WI hadn't been rained off against Ban then SL would've been on the next plane home!
Now to "ifs and butt" theory. SA should have beaten Australia (the eventual winner) in '99 not once but twice!! SA should have reached the final in the '92 WC.One needs some luck in a tournament like world cup, SL were a bit lucky but did deserve to reach the K.O stage.
 

Legglancer

State Regular
marc71178 said:
So I'm not allowed to defend my posting regarding the luck which got SL past the Group stage then?
Well If you cared to read the rest of my post ... you will have to conclude that your theory has been shot down ! ;)
 

warrioryohannan

U19 Cricketer
Ringua said:
]

The theorists was actually suggesting that none of the 3 asians would even reach the semis (thats what a poor World cup is), something which has not happened in atleast 3 previous world cup !!!





Actually the only time Asians failed to reach the semis in a WC(ever since '83) was in WC '87 which was staged in Sub-continent!
 

marc71178

Eyes not spreadsheets
Ringua said:
SL were a bit lucky but did deserve to reach the K.O stage.
Isn't exactly what I've just been saying?

You prove my post wrong by coming to the same conclusion?
 

marc71178

Eyes not spreadsheets
Legglancer said:
How so ???? Sri Lanka ended With the 2 nd Highest NRR ????
With the benefit of that tie they did, and without the Windies getting a massive boost to theirs by playing Bangladesh.

That would be the lucky part of my original post then.
 

Ringua

School Boy/Girl Cricketer
Isn't exactly what I've just been saying?You prove my post wrong by coming to the same conclusion?
I thought you were of the view that SL didn't deserve to be in semis!

And i thought you had a lot more to say than just about Lanka, the team that reached the final didn't go through by "luck", Lanka reaching the K.O stage was just one example which proves the theory as bogus!
 

marc71178

Eyes not spreadsheets
Ringua said:
As i've said earlier he did arrive at conclusion based on "Selected Facts", one team for example did well in recent past in Australia, but that was overlooked.
Ironic that, you say he looked at selected facts then use that fact:

India last Test Series in SA: 0-1; in Aus: 0-3
Pakistan last Test Series in SA: 0-2; in Aus: 0-3
Sri Lanka last Test Series in SA: 0-2; in Aus: 0-3

India last ODI Series in SA: 1-3; in Aus: 0-4
Pakistan last ODI Series in SA: 1-4; in Aus: 2-1
Sri Lanka last ODI Series in SA: 1-4; in Aus: 1-3

So out of 12 possibles, the 3 lost 11, yet you quote the 1 that Pakistan won as proof that Bazza used selected facts?
 

Legglancer

State Regular
marc71178 said:
With the benefit of that tie they did, and without the Windies getting a massive boost to theirs by playing Bangladesh.

That would be the lucky part of my original post then.
Again your argument is presumptous and not based on fact's .... Just for the sake of humor I will indulge !


*) How did the benifit of the Tie affect the NRR?? :rolleyes:
 

Legglancer

State Regular
marc71178 said:
Now let me think, could it be by not losing their NRR didn't fall?
No ..... not really .... South Africa had to get 230 runs at the end of 45 overs to win ..... they got 229. 1 run will not have an effect on the NRR!
 

Anil

Hall of Fame Member
warrioryohannan said:
Actually the only time Asians failed to reach the semis in a WC(ever since '83) was in WC '87 which was staged in Sub-continent!
In '87 India reached the semis and were beaten by England.
 

krkode

State Captain
Yeah, except in 75, 1 or more asian teams have always reached the semis. But given that there are 3 asian teams out of 6-10 test playing teams most of the time, it's rather expected that atleast one of them makes it.
 

Bazza

International 12th Man
Originally posted by Bazza
My point was that all three of the major players from the subcontinent have been hugely outclassed in South African/Australian type conditions, and as a result can be expected to struggle in the world cup.Don't worry this is the last time I will try and get this across. We will wait and see what happens, but I am safe in the knowledge that if India, Pakistan and Sri Lanka all have a poor world cup campaign, I saw it coming a light year away.I won't go back any further - you get the idea. Subcontinental teams tend to suck in SA/Aus type conditions (ie pace, bounce, large outfields, etc).Here is the evidence right there. It's not an opinion, it is fact, and I would be surprised if any subcontinental side makes it to the final.
This is what I am quoted as saying before the start of the tournament. I stand by this.

Ringua has emitted by the looks of it, the statistical evidence I used to back up the theory (India, Sri Lanka and Pakistan had 1 win out of 12 for most recent series away to South Africa and Australia between them). Thanks to Marc for pointing this out.

My point was that those three sides have evidently struggled greatly in SA/Aus type conditions, as I said in the above quote.

As I said I provided facts to back up my opinion and I believe to an extent I was proven right. Pakistan had all sorts of problems with the batting, continually playing irresponsible shots to throw the wickets away. Same goes for Sri Lanka - batsmen (even 8 of them in the semi) couldn't get a run of scores going, and even Murali struggled. They rode the crest of the Vaas wave all the way to the semi and I believe they were fortunate to progress so far.

That brings us on to India and my closing statement. OK, I admit it - I hold my hands up. India made the final and I was surprised by how well they played, especially those three seamers, in the earlier games. Unfortunately for them the fact remains they were shown up to be the ordinary bowlers they were in the final, bowling a succession of poor deliveries and lots of short stuff which was repeatedly punished by Ponting et al.

So there we are, I was two thirds right, but I stand by what I said, because in the lead up to the tournament I just couldn't see India performing as well as they did, and of course that is a credit to them. There almost is alot to be said for coming second in this tournament, because lets face it, nobody ever got close to Australia, and the two sides who had a chance of beating them were shot to pieces in the end.
 

aussie_beater

State Vice-Captain
One thing that I find is being ignored in this whole discussion is that in a world cup, you don't only play SA or Aus. So although the statistical record of the sub-continent teams are poor in Aus and SA, that points more to a record against Aus and SA which are/were by far the two best teams in ODIs for the last few years.

So losing to them in pitches in Aus and SA does not necessarily point to a clear argument that the sub-continent teams would lose to everybody else as well in those same pitches or conditions.

That is why I think you see that the sub-continent teams haven't done too badly in world cups played almost anywhere.

And someone said that no sub-continent team made it to the semi-finals in 1987......actually both India and Pakistan made it to the semi-finals in 1987 and were being hugely tipped to make the dream world cup final...India versus Pakistan at Eden Gardens. But Pakistan lost to Australia who eventually won the cup while India lost to England in the semis.Yes 1987 was the only final after 1979 not to have a sub-continent team featuring in it.
 
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Anil

Hall of Fame Member
marc71178 said:
Ironic that, you say he looked at selected facts then use that fact:

India last Test Series in SA: 0-1; in Aus: 0-3
Pakistan last Test Series in SA: 0-2; in Aus: 0-3
Sri Lanka last Test Series in SA: 0-2; in Aus: 0-3

India last ODI Series in SA: 1-3; in Aus: 0-4
Pakistan last ODI Series in SA: 1-4; in Aus: 2-1
Sri Lanka last ODI Series in SA: 1-4; in Aus: 1-3

So out of 12 possibles, the 3 lost 11, yet you quote the 1 that Pakistan won as proof that Bazza used selected facts?
Hey Marc, Bazza, why don't you look at these stats?

Tests: (Last series)
Eng vs Aus 1-4, SA 1-2
NZ vs Aus 0-0,SA 0-2
WI vs Aus 0-5, SA 0-5

ODIs: (Last series)
Eng vs Aus 0-6, SA 1-3
NZ vs Aus 3-1, SA 0-5
WI vs Aus 0-6, SA 1-6

So, out of 12 possibles, these 3 lost 10 and drew and won 1 each.
When you talk about subcontinental teams flopping in SA and Aus, why don't you check to see how these "non-subcontinental" teams fared there? Isn't that using selected facts? As far as SA are concerned, only Aus played well there, as far as the Aussies are concerned, except for a couple of hiccups against NZ, they blasted everyone else to pieces.

My point is that failure on Aus and SA pitches isn't restricted to subcontinental teams alone. It applies to all other teams as well. So, using those stats to prove that failure in SA is definite just doesn't wash as a theory, does it? After all, even if Bazza predicts that Aus and SA will be semifinalists, there are still 2 slots remaining and on their comparative form in SA, it could have been any 2 from the 3 "subcontinentals" and the 3 "non-subcontinentals", right? Ultimately the Kenyans were the surprise package who upset most people's calculations, but I hope you get the point.
 
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Anil

Hall of Fame Member
Re: Re: The man who saw it comming a light year away!!

Bazza said:
Unfortunately for them the fact remains they were shown up to be the ordinary bowlers they were in the final, bowling a succession of poor deliveries and lots of short stuff which was repeatedly punished by Ponting et al.
What a positively biased statement!! For 10 matches they bowl well above ordinary(in fact brilliant at times) and that is an exception for you while the really ordinary bowling in the 11th match(the final) is the norm. What a logic, man! I take my hat off to you!:rolleyes:
 

Mr Mxyzptlk

Request Your Custom Title Now!
This thread is just another medium for a massive anti-India/anti-England argument. Is this really necessary? Shouldn't we end it before it spirals out of control?
 
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