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The greatest fast bowler who ever drew breath?

Red

The normal awards that everyone else has
Trueman once self proclaimed it were ‘im, but who do you say it is? No voting, just discussion about why you think what you think.
 

Burgey

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McGrath. Great average and economy on a batsman-dominant era and got the best players out, usually after saying he would.
 

subshakerz

International Coach
Malcolm Marshall. No weaknesses, the complete fast bowler with nigh perfect record.

The most impressive thing about him? At his peak (83 - 88 roughly) he was taking average of 6 wickets a test in all countries in the world in an attack that boasted 2-3 other worldclass bowlers. Truly a class apart.
 
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Lillian Thomson

Hall of Fame Member
Malcolm Marshall a tad above the rest. But if anyone said Trueman, Lillee, McGrath I wouldn’t argue (much). If anyone said Jimmy Anderson or Dale Steyn I wouldn’t argue either as I’d assume they’d not been well. :devil2:
 

a massive zebra

International Captain
Malcolm Marshall a tad above the rest. But if anyone said Trueman, Lillee, McGrath I wouldn’t argue (much). If anyone said Jimmy Anderson or Dale Steyn I wouldn’t argue either as I’d assume they’d not been well. :devil2:
What exactly is your problem with Dale Steyn? Just cannot accept that a contemporary bowler could possibly bear comparison to the bowlers of your youth?

Steyn is objectively just so far ahead of all his contemporaries, with a strike rate that compares favourably with pretty much anyone ever in one of the most batting friendly eras, a great record in traditional fast bowling graveyards and a history of ripping through some of the best batting lineups in the world. Furthermore, when in full flow with the late swing at great pace he is one of the most exciting fast bowlers to watch that I have seen in the last 20 years. He certainly has a more complete record than Lillee, and Trueman struggled to maintan a regular place in the England side over the first half of his career.

For the record I agree Malcolm Marshall is a tad above the rest and I don't think Steyn is the best fast bowler ever, but he is certainly in the discussion and should be treated with a respect you have not shown here.
 

mr_mister

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Those struggles for Trueman to nail a spot were down to attitude problems right

Either way I agree Steyn deserves to be in the discussion as much as I hate his face
 

Adders

Cricketer Of The Year
What exactly is your problem with Dale Steyn? Just cannot accept that a contemporary bowler could possibly bear comparison to the bowlers of your youth?

Steyn is objectively just so far ahead of all his contemporaries, with a strike rate that compares favourably with pretty much anyone ever in one of the most batting friendly eras, a great record in traditional fast bowling graveyards and a history of ripping through some of the best batting lineups in the world. Furthermore, when in full flow with the late swing at great pace he is one of the most exciting fast bowlers to watch that I have seen in the last 20 years. He certainly has a more complete record than Lillee, and Trueman struggled to maintan a regular place in the England side over the first half of his career.

For the record I agree Malcolm Marshall is a tad above the rest and I don't think Steyn is the best fast bowler ever, but he is certainly in the discussion and should be treated with a respect you have not shown here.
Ditto Jimmy Anderson.
 

The Battlers Prince

International Vice-Captain
Stats aside I just knew when we had McGrath, we were unbeatable. The Aussie's lost a few with him playing but he had such a great technique and patience. Just brilliant.
Having said that, if I'm being honest, the bowler I couldn't get enough of watching was Wasim Akram. Wasim could bowl in ways that nobody else has done in the time I've been watching.
 

watson

Banned
Trueman’s stats are pretty impressive, so he has a very good point.

T'greatest that ever was

......When he died in July 2006, aged 75, very quickly after a diagnosis of lung cancer, Wisden called him "probably the greatest fast bowler England has produced". His Test figures still dazzle: 307 wickets in 67 Tests at the miserly average of 21.57. He was the extremely proud founding member of the 300 Test wickets club, which he celebrated with a few pats on the back and an evening visit to the Black and White Minstrel Show at the Victoria Palace. Of the 26 bowlers who have since joined him, only Allan Donald, Malcolm Marshall, Waqar Younis and Dale Steyn have a better strike rate, only Curtly Ambrose and Marshall a lower average, and only eight players took 300 in fewer Tests. Had he not both misbehaved and been misunderstood the haul would surely have topped 400. For Yorkshire his wicket tally was an incredible 1745 and in 21 seasons of first-class cricket in England he took 100 wickets in a season 12 times.

No, not bad for a boy from a mining family, squeezed out during a snowstorm in the outside toilet close to the pit yard and, apocryphally at least, so big he had to sleep in a drawer pulled from the sideboard. The fourth of Dick and Ethel Trueman's seven children, Fred's upbringing was loving but poor, and very hard. Scotch Springs, where he was born, is now a wasteland. Maltby Main Colliery, where his father and brother both worked, finally shut last year.

T'greatest that ever was | The Cricket Monthly | ESPN Cricinfo
 
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a massive zebra

International Captain
Those struggles for Trueman to nail a spot were down to attitude problems right

Either way I agree Steyn deserves to be in the discussion as much as I hate his face
And the fact that England had an incredible array of bowlers to choose from. Bedser, Stalham, Tyson, Laker, Lock, Wardle, Appleyard; plus a number of other pace bowlers that would have walked into the England side if born 10-20 years before or after.
 

watson

Banned
But for me it’s just as much about the legend and persona of a fast-bowler as it is the raw numbers. This is why Trueman and Lillee will always be greater than Willis or McGrath IMO.


......A 21st century Trueman? Well, he would have played havoc with ECB protocol. Imagine the damage he could have done with Twitter had it existed when he was left out of the South Africa tour in 1956-57. England seems to have lost the confidence to let cricketers be themselves, 21st century men of disparate types, good and bad. Botham and Flintoff trod in Trueman's footsteps in terms of public adoration - Flintoff, the nation's darling in 2005, was perhaps the nearest equivalent with his forays into light entertainment, his passion for his county and his gentler private persona. But even Flintoff in his pedalo days didn't have to put up with the barrage of scrutiny international players do today. It takes a brave or foolhardy one to bare his soul - but somehow you get the feeling Trueman might just have thrown himself into the circus.

Instead he lies in the cemetery at Bolton Abbey, part of the Yorkshire landscape that sculpted him and that he so adored. His grave is just 22 yards away from his old friend Bob Appleyard's, who used to accompany him to Sunday worship, feet up, both of them, at last. "If anyone beats it," as Trueman said about his final tally of Test wickets, "they'll be bloody tired."

T'greatest that ever was | The Cricket Monthly | ESPN Cricinfo
 

Adders

Cricketer Of The Year
Stats aside I just knew when we had McGrath, we were unbeatable. The Aussie's lost a few with him playing but he had such a great technique and patience. Just brilliant.
Having said that, if I'm being honest, the bowler I couldn't get enough of watching was Wasim Akram. Wasim could bowl in ways that nobody else has done in the time I've been watching.
I can't recall the figures but Aus win loss ratio with McGrath playing or not was just ridiculous, by far the most influential player of their great era..........would be interesting to know if any of the Windies quicks had that same impact.

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Or Steyn for that matter.
 
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Starfighter

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
And the fact that England had an incredible array of bowlers to choose from. Bedser, Stalham, Tyson, Laker, Lock, Wardle, Appleyard; plus a number of other pace bowlers that would have walked into the England side if born 10-20 years before or after.
And Trueman was better than all of them. Plus only three are pace bowlers and Bedser was past his best not long after Trueman emerged.
 
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