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The better batsman the bettter #3 Ponting vs Dravid

aussie

Hall of Fame Member
I have seen this argument on these forums before but after Punters superb perfomances this year, i again wonder who is the better batsman between these 2 top-class blokes. Dravid admitedly seems more solid while Ponting is more destructive, but which one of those attributes makes either better than the other?.

Since Jan 1st 2002 Ponting has the best aggregate in tests 47 tests 4808 runs at an average 68.68 with 17 hundreds & 17 50's, when Dravid is 3rd 41 test 3746 runs at an 64.58 with 11 & 16 50's.Overall againts all the major test playing nations Ponting averages better than Dravid in all except England where Dravid averages 75 to Ponting 41, you can see their career summaries here:

1. Ponting: stats.cricinfo.com/guru?sdb=player;...edhigh=;csearch=;submit=1;.cgifields=viewtype

2. Dravid:http://statserver.cricket.org/guru?...edhigh=;csearch=;submit=1;.cgifields=viewtype

When it comes to abilities againts various types of bowlers IMO i think Ponting is the better player of pace, but not by much. Againts top-quality spin (in helpful conditons) i'm not so sure, people tend to regard Ponting as a poor player of spin in helpful conditions simply because of that horrific series he had in India in 2001 & a not so dominant performance their in 98, but i remember in 99 in SRI where he played Murali very well & was australia's best batsman on tour. Also the fact that since that 2001 series for all those who have seen a lot of Ponting especially the SRI series in 200 can agree he looks a better player of spin, he just hasn't had much opputunities to prove that. Dravid may be slightly better in this category but even him isn't that great againts spin, i've seen his struggles againts Warne in the past & i've never heard of any occassion when Dravid has been dominant againts any top class spinner, but i'll leave it here at 1-1.

Now for who is the better #3, Ponting is 3rd on the all-time list with at average of 63.72 with 19 centuries & 20 fifties from 60 test, only bettered by Bradman who averages 103.63 their and Hammond 74. While Dravid isn't that far behind with an average of 60.91 in 77 test with 17 centuries & 31 fifties. Not much i can gather from that other than Dravid is probably a bit more consistent due to the fact that he has 14 more 50's. I have seen a fair bit of them & both a very vulnerable early on Ponting more so to ball moving away from him on off-stump & Dravid coming in, but its very though to seperate these two in either field. What are your views....
 

Zinzan

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aussie said:
Overall againts all the major test playing nations Ponting averages better than Dravid in all except England where Dravid averages 75 to Ponting 41, you can see their career summaries here:

QUOTE]

Yes, but Ponting hasn't had to face Mcgrath, Lee, Warne and co, thus hasn't faced the best attack in the world in the last 4 years
 

Robertinho

Cricketer Of The Year
And Ponting hasn't played Bangladesh/Zimbabwe as much as Dravid.

They're both great players, and they're both different technically, but the real difference is that Ponting can score 60 runs/100 balls, whereas Dravid hangs around the 40 runs/100 balls mark.

In the last 50 tests for both - Dravid has 4299 runs @ 60.54, and Ponting has 4966 runs @ 66.21. Pretty similar really, just the rate at which they score is different. I'd say both of them are underrated as batsman.
 

C_C

International Captain
In tests, i would take Dravid every single time over Ponting, especially at #3.
ODIs, Ponting wins easily.
 

Zinzan

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C_C said:
In tests, i would take Dravid every single time over Ponting, especially at #3.
.
Would have agreed with this 12-18 months ago, but of late Pontings put his nose in front
 
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social

Hall of Fame Member
C_C said:
In tests, i would take Dravid every single time over Ponting, especially at #3.
ODIs, Ponting wins easily.
Statistics (and I know how much you like those) dont back it up.

See cricinfo for summary of no. 3s in reference to Ponting's 100th test.
 

Zinzan

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Actually Pontings record in his last 45 tests is awesome !

45 79 11 4755 257 242 207 69.92 17 17 2
 

Craig

World Traveller
social said:
Statistics (and I know how much you like those) dont back it up.

See cricinfo for summary of no. 3s in reference to Ponting's 100th test.
Since Jan 1 2002:

Best batsmen since Jan 1, 2002 Tests Runs Average 100s/ 50s
Ponting 47 4808 68.68 17/ 17
Jacques Kallis 39 3703 67.32 13/ 17
Rahul Dravid 41 3746 64.58 11/ 16
Brian Lara 38 3983 61.27 13/ 12
Inzamam-ul-Haq 30 2753 61.17 9/ 12
Matthew Hayden 52 4975 58.52 19/ 16
Virender Sehwag 35 3085 54.12 9/ 9
Sachin Tendulkar 37 2904 53.77 8/ 11

Interestingly enough Ponting has an average of 96 v Zimbabwe after 3 Tests but averages only 34 against Bangladesh after two Tests. But that may change when they go to Bangladesh in April.
 

andyc

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Robertinho said:
In the last 50 tests for both - Dravid has 4299 runs @ 60.54, and Ponting has 4966 runs @ 66.21. Pretty similar really
Well, not really, there's almost 6 runs difference there. That's like saying someone averaging 44 is the same as someone averaging 50...
 

C_C

International Captain
social said:
Statistics (and I know how much you like those) dont back it up.

See cricinfo for summary of no. 3s in reference to Ponting's 100th test.
Please- i have certain stats that are relevant. One of them is how they've done throughout their career against quality bowling attacks- Dravid leaves Ponting in the shadow in that dept.
 

C_C

International Captain
zinzan12 said:
Would have agreed with this 12-18 months ago, but of late Pontings put his nose in front
Well right now, even Salman Butt has his nose in front of Tendulkar- i dont care about form, i care about overall career accomplishments. Until Punter learns how to play spin on spinning tracks, he is no match for Dravid.
 

C_C

International Captain
zinzan12 said:
Actually Pontings record in his last 45 tests is awesome !

45 79 11 4755 257 242 207 69.92 17 17 2
Not just Ponting. Also Hayden, Lara, Dravid, Kallis, etc. Its not surprising, given that there arnt any bowling attacks the quality of several bowling attacks in the 90s, barring OZ.
 

Zinzan

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C_C said:
Please- i have certain stats that are relevant. One of them is how they've done throughout their career against quality bowling attacks- Dravid leaves Ponting in the shadow in that dept.
Even if that were true (which I not convinced), then what dept is Ponting better in considering he has a superior record in the last 3-4 years?

I will acknowledge Ponting doesn't have to face Warne, Mcgrath etc.
 

Craig

World Traveller
In Asia Ponting has scored 1084 runs @ 38.71 with 3 100s and 5 50s, with the baulk ofthose in Sri Lanka and one wicket :D

In ODIs he has scored 1903 runs @ 42.28 with 5 100s and 10 50s, and he has a few in India. So it is not as though he can't bat there. He had a dreadfull run in 2001 - everbody haves them, on his last tour before that, he hadn't matured as much as he has now, and in 2004 he was out for three Tests with a broken thumb and when he came back on a dodgy wicket.
 

Boofra

Cricket Spectator
Just to add to the debate:

Ponting just brought up his 8000th test run in his 165th inning. Dravid brought it up in 158 knocks. Splitting hairs, really.

I suppose who you consider better depends on the situation. If the score is 3-30 on a tough pitch or in spinning conditions then you'd take Dravid. If you had to save a match you'd probably take Dravid (inspite of Punter's 157 at Old Trafford). But Ponting certainly does have it over Dravid in terms of S/R. So if you were entering a match you had to win he's the man.

It also depends on team requirements. For example, with the likes of Sehwag, Sachin, VVS and now Dhoni in the Indian team, i would argue that Dravid is the perfect foil. But for Australia, playing at home on hard pitches you could aruge that Ponting is the best man as he's an attacking number 3 suited to the conditions.

Meh, they're both great.
 
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Craig

World Traveller
C_C said:
Please- i have certain stats that are relevant. One of them is how they've done throughout their career against quality bowling attacks- Dravid leaves Ponting in the shadow in that dept.
But it is hardly Ponting's fault that India or other teams have a crap bowling attacks, so unless he burns his Australian passport and goes and plays for another country he can't really do that.
 

C_C

International Captain
zinzan12 said:
Even if that were true (which I not convinced), then what dept is Ponting better in considering he has a superior record in the last 3-4 years?

I will acknowledge Ponting doesn't have to face Warne, Mcgrath etc.
He is cashing in against weak bowling attacks. All batsmen do. But Ponting more so than Dravid IMO.

Dravid has an excellent record- far superior to Ponting away from home. While both are excellent at playing pace bowling ( Ponting marginally better than Dravid IMO), Ponting cannot hold a candle to Dravid while batting against spin, especially on spin-friendly tracks.
Ponting's record in india is pathetic- and has always been pathetic. No alltime great batsman has such a glaring weakness against a particular good bowling opposition.

PS: I evaluate batsmen based on away record being more important than home record, performance against the best of the best, the quality of bowling attack faced by the batsmen and overall consistency. In that same count, Dravid comes ahead of Ponting, much the same i feel Tendulkar comes ahead of Lara.
 
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