• Welcome to the Cricket Web forums, one of the biggest forums in the world dedicated to cricket.

    You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join the Cricket Web community today!

    If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.

The best minnow basher of this decade

bagapath

International Captain
I'd actually forgotten just how heavily SR Waugh had cashed in on the few occasions he faced those teams. Makes the same kind of sense as Kallis really - a solid, remorseless accumulator of runs who rarely tried anything particularly risky and never gave his wicket away.
if you take away the records against the minnows then s.waugh averags a perfectly respectable, but not so great 48 runs per innings.
 

SJS

Hall of Fame Member
Amongst bowlers. . .

  • MacGill took 33 wickets in four Tests against Bangladesh at 15.7 each !
  • Gillespie 19 at 13.7 !
  • Gillespie against Zombabwe took 5 (in one Test) at 11.6 each !
 

Furball

Evil Scotsman
Actually, Kallis isn't a bad shout.

Since 2000, in 99 Tests, he's scored 8428 runs @58.93, with 26 tons. Exceptional stats there.

Take out Bangladesh and Zimbabwe, it drops to 89 Tests, 7611 runs @ 55.55, 23 tons. Still extremely good.

However, in the last 10 years he's also feasted on New Zealand and the West Indies, without doubt the two weakest sides of the top 8.

With those 2 removed:

62 Tests, 4843 runs @ 48.91, 13 tons.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with averaging a shade under 49 since the millenium, but what it does show is to the extent that Kallis has feasted on weaker sides.
 

Slifer

International Regular
When someone gets the chance I'd be very interested to see the stats of the following batsmen with and without minnows in their record:

Tendulkar
Kallis
Lara
Inzamam
S Waugh
Ponting
Dravid
Hayden
Chanderpaul
 

Slifer

International Regular
Actually, Kallis isn't a bad shout.

Since 2000, in 99 Tests, he's scored 8428 runs @58.93, with 26 tons. Exceptional stats there.

Take out Bangladesh and Zimbabwe, it drops to 89 Tests, 7611 runs @ 55.55, 23 tons. Still extremely good.

However, in the last 10 years he's also feasted on New Zealand and the West Indies, without doubt the two weakest sides of the top 8.

With those 2 removed:

62 Tests, 4843 runs @ 48.91, 13 tons.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with averaging a shade under 49 since the millenium, but what it does show is to the extent that Kallis has feasted on weaker sides.
TBH from about 2000 til a few years ago i considered the WI team a minnow myself.
 

oitoitoi

State Vice-Captain
I remember Cricinfo doing a stats article on this very issue and Kallis stands out in memory. That was a couple of years back mind.
 

JBH001

International Regular
This feasting against minnows is a strange thing in cricketing terms, so often its a case of damned if you do, and damned if you dont.

That said, I am a little perturbed to see so many of the SL batting order in that list of 'feasting' batsmen against Zim and Bang.
 

Slifer

International Regular
This feasting against minnows is a strange thing in cricketing terms, so often its a case of damned if you do, and damned if you dont.

That said, I am a little perturbed to see so many of the SL batting order in that list of 'feasting' batsmen against Zim and Bang.

I usually damn players if they bash minnows but tend to go missing agaisnt the better teams (esp the very best) Thats y for example among the great WI bastmen Walcott and Weekes will always be a rung below Lara, Viv and Sobers for me. They did well against the lower teams (India at the time) and performed poorly against the better sides (Aust. and Eng) particularly in away tests. BTW please note that i never called India a minnow.
 

SJS

Hall of Fame Member
This feasting against minnows is a strange thing in cricketing terms, so often its a case of damned if you do, and damned if you dont.

That said, I am a little perturbed to see so many of the SL batting order in that list of 'feasting' batsmen against Zim and Bang.
Thtas easy to see once you look at this table :-

Bangladesh and Zimbabwe's Test matches since entry to test cricket.

Code:
[B]TEAM	BDS	ZIM	TOTAL[/B]
SRL	12	15	27
NZL	8	14	22
PAK	6	15	21
IND	5	11	16
SAF	8	7	15
WIN	4	6	10
ENG	2	6	8
AUS	4	3	7
Mutual	8	8	8
Notice NewZealand there in second place. It still didnt help their averages now did it. Wonder how many Kiwi fans are going to reassess what constitutes a minnow or what is minnow bashing ? :sleep:
 

Jono

Virat Kohli (c)
Kallis, Sachin, Vettori, Irfan Pathan and Murali all smash the minnows.

Three of those five have outstanding stats against other teams as well.

Henve it has to be Vettori and Irfan.
 

Cricket_God

U19 Cricketer
Kallis, Sachin, Vettori, Irfan Pathan and Murali all smash the minnows.

Three of those five have outstanding stats against other teams as well.

Henve it has to be Vettori and Irfan.
Well Smith also is an example,But then shane warne played against bangladesh on those flat pitches and was not outstanding ,irfan destroyed them with his swing and on the
next tour on same pitches we struggled allthough we had better bowlers,so test sides
should not be considered minnows.
 

bagapath

International Captain
this is just in terms of test cricket

overall bowling averages against different teams

Code:
v Australia 	1208 	1877-2009 	708 	6770 	757991 	349621 	10283 	10/53 	19/90 	33.99 	2.76 	73.7 	469 	71 
v Pakistan 	770 	1952-2009 	337 	3173 	339699 	156046 	4755 	10/74 	14/149 	32.81 	2.75 	71.4 	189 	18 
v Sri Lanka 	528 	1982-2009 	184 	1711 	177085 	86796 	2646 	8/58 	14/116 	32.80 	2.94 	66.9 	93 	14 
v India 	933 	1932-2009 	429 	4203 	449588 	201914 	6157 	9/95 	13/106 	32.79 	2.69 	73.0 	233 	38 
v West Indies 	911 	1928-2009 	455 	4277 	458828 	218649 	6689 	9/83 	16/136 	32.68 	2.85 	68.5 	301 	47 
v England 	1358 	1877-2009 	884 	8359 	953675 	404434 	12933 	9/56 	16/137 	31.27 	2.54 	73.7 	593 	86 
v South Africa 	812 	1889-2009 	344 	3407 	371907 	161350 	5181 	9/28 	17/159 	31.14 	2.60 	71.7 	222 	41 
v New Zealand 	880 	1930-2009 	350 	3492 	369593 	148577 	5388 	8/53 	13/55 	27.57 	2.41 	68.5 	233 	35 
v Zimbabwe 	288 	1992-2005 	83 	852 	84824 	36095 	1356 	9/51 	13/115 	26.61 	2.55 	62.5 	53 	9 
v Bangladesh 	222 	2000-2009 	59 	591 	47292 	22339 	1103 	8/108 	12/82 	20.25 	2.83 	42.8 	57 	10 
v ICC World XI 	11 	2005-2005 	1 	9 	583 	329 	20 	5/43 	9/82 	16.45 	3.38 	29.1 	1 	0
overall batting averages against various teams

Code:
v Bangladesh 	222 	2000-2009 	59 	694 	127 	27819 	261* 	49.06 	83 	116 	54 	
v Zimbabwe 	288 	1992-2005 	83 	1225 	194 	38238 	380 	37.08 	81 	183 	108 
v India 	933 	1932-2009 	429 	7189 	1003 	205085 	340 	33.15 	426 	942 	697 
v New Zealand 	880 	1930-2009 	350 	5579 	812 	157135 	336* 	32.96 	330 	687 	533 	
v Sri Lanka 	528 	1982-2009 	184 	3114 	395 	82728 	313 	30.42 	156 	396 	336 
v Pakistan 	770 	1952-2009 	337 	5805 	768 	151598 	365* 	30.09 	287 	700 	677 
v West Indies 	911 	1928-2009 	455 	8270 	1087 	213219 	337 	29.68 	421 	928 	928 	
v South Africa 	812 	1889-2009 	344 	6177 	773 	157001 	374 	29.05 	278 	696 	660 
v England 	1358 	1877-2009 	884 	15885 	2033 	398067 	400* 	28.73 	696 	1825 	1745 	
v Australia 	1208 	1877-2009 	708 	13440 	1602 	327243 	364 	27.64 	519 	1555 	1525 	
v ICC World XI 	11 	2005-2005 	1 	22 	2 	503 	111 	25.15 	1 	3 	3
it definitely looks like it is much easier to take bang and zim wickets. scoring runs against them is looking ridiculously simple. if you score 49 against bang it is the equivalent of scoring 27 against australia.
 
Last edited:

Howsie

International Captain
Brendon McCullum:

Before he made that Hundred against India last week he had One against Bangladesh and Zimbabwae. His only ODI Century is against Ireland and his 158 in the IPL was against a piss poor 20/20 team. Still one of my favourite players though.
 

Athlai

Not Terrible
his 158 in the IPL was against a piss poor 20/20 team. Still one of my favourite players though.
Uh...
Praveen Kumar
Zaheer Khan
Ashley Noffke
Jacques Kallis

Rubbish bowling.

(Cameron White did bowl an over)
 

SJS

Hall of Fame Member
One must also keep in mind that Zimbabwe were not minnows like Bangladesh have been right through their existence and Zimbabwe have become in recent times.

Its very easy to see that those who played against Zimbabwe in their better days did not benefit hugely in terms of stats as those who played them later. Thats why I hesitate to include Zimbabwe as minnows till after Heath Streak left the team after the Delhi Test on 28th Feb 2002. Andy Flower left two Tests later. Their stats as a team are startlingly different before and since that Delhi Test match despite Heath Streak's heroic attempt to put the mess in order.

Have a look.

Before 1st March 2002

Code:
[B]VS	Played	Won	Lost	Drawn[/B]

AUS	1		1	
BAN	4	3		1
ENG	4		1	3
IND	9	2	5	2
NZL	11		5	6
PAK	12	2	6	4
SAF	7		6	1
SRL	13		7	6
WIN	5		3	2

[B]TOTAL	66	7	34	25[/B]
Since 1st March 2002

Code:
[B]VS	Played	Won	Lost	Drawn[/B]

AUS	2		2	
BAN	4	1	1	2
ENG	2		2	
IND	2		2	
NZL	2		2	
PAK	2		2	
SAF	2		2	
SRL	2		2	
WIN	2		1	1

[B]TOTAL	20	1	16	3[/B]
Zimbabwe was one of the most promising new comers to Test cricket and they had batsmen and bowlers in the ranking lists all the time.

Their six wins included two each against India and Pakistan and they had a 3-0 record against the real minnows of the world, Bangladesh. Look at what they have done since.

They had 25 draws in 66 Test matches and only one of them was against Bangladesh. They could, on their day stand up against all sides and did.

There leading run scorers used to be
  • Andy Flower : 4655 runs at 52.3 with 12 centuries
  • David Houghton : 1464 at 43.1 with 4 centuries
  • Murray Goodwin : 1414 at 42.9 with 3 centuries
  • Guy Whittall : 2198 at 30.1 with 4 centuries
  • Grant Flower with nearly 3000 runs and 6 centuries.

Since then we have just one major batsman in the 30's : Taibu with 1220 runs at under 25. Bowlers Andy Blignaut and Heath Streak (part of the earlier teams) are next in batting too with averages at 27+.

Their bowlers used to have
Heath Streak with 180 wickets at 26.99

Today they have no one.

Look care fully at the records of players against Zimbabwe at their peak and you will find they did not really benefit much as far as stats go.

Now finally they are minnows. They weren't before. Mr Mughabe has given us at least two things, another Test Minnows side and a ten trilion dollar bill !
 

Maximus0723

State Regular
One must also keep in mind that Zimbabwe were not minnows like Bangladesh have been right through their existence and Zimbabwe have become in recent times.

Its very easy to see that those who played against Zimbabwe in their better days did not benefit hugely in terms of stats as those who played them later. Thats why I hesitate to include Zimbabwe as minnows till after Heath Streak left the team after the Delhi Test on 28th Feb 2002. Andy Flower left two Tests later. Their stats as a team are startlingly different before and since that Delhi Test match despite Heath Streak's heroic attempt to put the mess in order.

Have a look.

Before 1st March 2002

Code:
[B]VS	Played	Won	Lost	Drawn[/B]

AUS	1		1	
BAN	4	3		1
ENG	4		1	3
IND	9	2	5	2
NZL	11		5	6
PAK	12	2	6	4
SAF	7		6	1
SRL	13		7	6
WIN	5		3	2

[B]TOTAL	66	7	34	25[/B]
Since 1st March 2002

Code:
[B]VS	Played	Won	Lost	Drawn[/B]

AUS	2		2	
BAN	4	1	1	2
ENG	2		2	
IND	2		2	
NZL	2		2	
PAK	2		2	
SAF	2		2	
SRL	2		2	
WIN	2		1	1

[B]TOTAL	20	1	16	3[/B]
Zimbabwe was one of the most promising new comers to Test cricket and they had batsmen and bowlers in the ranking lists all the time.

Their six wins included two each against India and Pakistan and they had a 3-0 record against the real minnows of the world, Bangladesh. Look at what they have done since.

They had 25 draws in 66 Test matches and only one of them was against Bangladesh. They could, on their day stand up against all sides and did.

There leading run scorers used to be
  • Andy Flower : 4655 runs at 52.3 with 12 centuries
  • David Houghton : 1464 at 43.1 with 4 centuries
  • Murray Goodwin : 1414 at 42.9 with 3 centuries
  • Guy Whittall : 2198 at 30.1 with 4 centuries
  • Grant Flower with nearly 3000 runs and 6 centuries.

Since then we have just one major batsman in the 30's : Taibu with 1220 runs at under 25. Bowlers Andy Blignaut and Heath Streak (part of the earlier teams) are next in batting too with averages at 27+.

Their bowlers used to have
Heath Streak with 180 wickets at 26.99

Today they have no one.

Look care fully at the records of players against Zimbabwe at their peak and you will find they did not really benefit much as far as stats go.

Now finally they are minnows. They weren't before. Mr Mughabe has given us at least two things, another Test Minnows side and a ten trilion dollar bill !
Thank you.

Awesome job. I wanted to say this but couldn't.
I believe same thing can be said about Kenya?
 

Top