The ATG Teams General arguing/discussing thread

[h_hurricane]

Even at his peak, Williamson is averaging 33 in Eng, 35 in India, 21 in SA and 27 in SL. Imagine those numbers once he goes into irreversible decline.

KW is a great batsman, but kind of over-rated here. Should end up as a bottom tier ATG, but leagues below Viv.

 

[The Sean]

If we are doing Ashes teams based on their Ashes exploits, Chappell has a relatively poor record in Engand. Also both Waugh and Border were Ashes giants and at least one of them should be considered.

Hobbs
Sutcliffe
Bradman
Smith
Waugh
Botham
Haddin (yep)
Warne
Lillee
Snow
McGrath

I took it to mean a combined Australia/England XI rather than one based just on Australia v England Tests. If the latter is the case I reckon you've got to find a spot for Terry Alderman (especially if they're playing in England).

 

[kyear2]

If we are doing Ashes teams based on their Ashes exploits, Chappell has a relatively poor record in Engand. Also both Waugh and Border were Ashes giants and at least one of them should be considered.

Hobbs
Sutcliffe
Bradman
Smith
Waugh
Botham
Haddin (yep)
Warne
Lillee
Snow
McGrath

Not based on Ashes matches. Based on players who played for England or Australia.

 

[Flem274*]

Even at his peak, Williamson is averaging 33 in Eng, 35 in India, 21 in SA and 27 in SL. Imagine those numbers once he goes into irreversible decline.

KW is a great batsman, but kind of over-rated here. Should end up as a bottom tier ATG, but leagues below Viv.

samplesizelol for most of these.

im not confident at all nz will continue this golden run even into next year because you cannot trust the national side, but im pretty confident kw will be a proper atg batsman and correct most 'blemishes' in his record, as much as he is allowed to given how everyone bar australia and england are too scared to play us.

 

[Coronis]

I took it to mean a combined Australia/England XI rather than one based just on Australia v England Tests. If the latter is the case I reckon you've got to find a spot for Terry Alderman (especially if they're playing in England).

The former was what I meant, its just easier to say Ashes.

 

[TheJediBrah]

samplesizelol for most of these.

Not when you add them all together

 

[OverratedSanity]

Even at his peak, Williamson is averaging 33 in Eng, 35 in India, 21 in SA and 27 in SL. Imagine those numbers once he goes into irreversible decline.

KW is a great batsman, but kind of over-rated here. Should end up as a bottom tier ATG, but leagues below Viv.

I think there's a decent chance he'll improve them all if he tours those places again soon.

 

[srbhkshk]

I think there's a decent chance he'll improve them all if he tours those places again soon.

Alternatively he will make a duck in his next innings in SA and end up with a beyond shameful average.

 

[Gob]

Liked his work on Lasso though

 

[JBMAC]

I took it to mean a combined Australia/England XI rather than one based just on Australia v England Tests. If the latter is the case I reckon you've got to find a spot for Terry Alderman (especially if they're playing in England).

Haddin ahead of Tallon or Grout??? You got to be kidding right?

 

[Gob]

Haddin ahead of Tallon or Grout??? You got to be kidding right?

Brad Haddin was a great Ashes player though. He was as instrumental as Johnson if not more in winning the Ashes back in 13/14 and even before that, he saved the best for England. Definitely in the conversation atleast imo

 

[The Sean]

Haddin ahead of Tallon or Grout??? You got to be kidding right?

I don't think you meant to reply to me there, Macca! Haddin was in Gob's team. ?

 

[TheJediBrah]

Haddin ahead of Tallon or Grout??? You got to be kidding right?

Mate cut us some slack most of our parents weren't even born back then

 

[Flem274*]

Current Players Asia XI

Tamim
Karunaratne
Rohit
Kohli
Babar
Shakib
Rizwan (c) (wk)
Ashwin
Ishant
Bumrah
Shaheen

Some very close calls in here. Rohit's recent ascent initially made picking openers harder than it was before I realised he's probably someone I'm most comfortable with batting #3 in this team. Shaheen and Rizwan in will not be popular but they're the best choices. I'm just relieved the screeching midget banshee has given up the gloves because he used to have a legitimate case to make this side. #cancelmushfiqur

 

[Fuller Pilch]

Current Players Asia XI

Tamim
Karunaratne
Rohit
Kohli
Babar
Shakib
Rizwan (c) (wk)
Ashwin
Ishant
Bumrah
Shaheen

The team needs Fawad Alam - absolute gun. More reliable than most of those batsmen.

Move Rohit to opening, Babar to 3, and Fawad at 5.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Current Players Asia XI

Tamim
Karunaratne
Rohit
Kohli
Babar
Shakib
Rizwan (c) (wk)
Ashwin
Ishant
Bumrah
Shaheen

Some very close calls in here. Rohit's recent ascent initially made picking openers harder than it was before I realised he's probably someone I'm most comfortable with batting #3 in this team. Shaheen and Rizwan in will not be popular but they're the best choices. I'm just relieved the screeching midget banshee has given up the gloves because he used to have a legitimate case to make this side. #cancelmushfiqur

Did u make this post just to trigger people by leaving out Jadeja

 

[The Sean]

So I was trawling second hand book websites and have recently picked up a 1999 tome entitled "The 100 Greatest Cricketers" for the princely sum of £2. It was not one I had heard about before (which, given my penchant for all such books of this kind, is surprising!) - it was one of a series of "end-of-the-century" type sports books which came out around that time.

The list itself was compiled by a man named Nick Brownlee, who I assume was associated closely with TMS because the introduction to the book is by Peter Baxter and one of the features of the book in addition to the top 100 list is a selection of All Time XIs by the TMS team of the time (CMJ, Aggers, Blowers, Baxter himself and the Bearded Wonder Bill Frindall), as well as a TMS 40th Anniversary team covering the years 1957-1997.

A few observations in the posts to follow (whether you want them or not).

 

[The Sean]

Firstly, the list itself. We all have our own ways of constructing such rankings and it is always interesting to see how others view the world. That being said, Brownlee's list has quite a few elements which make it more interesting than most. For a start, there is - as you might expect - a pretty clear preference towards his fellow countrymen (40 out of the 100 names are English!) but even more than that it is the identity of some of those countrymen that raises eyebrows - I'd bet good money that there are very few lists of the 100 greatest cricketers which include any of Brian Close, Derek Randall or Mike Gatting.

This one includes them all.

 

[The Sean]

Brownlee clearly rates captaincy and leadership highly too (which I don't disagree with) - hence we also find all of Mike Brearley, Ray Illingworth, Geoff Howarth and Douglas Jardine on his list, when judged in pure cricketing terms we'd be highly unlikely to see any of them.

Jonty Rhodes is included, and not only included but at no.56 is actually ranked higher than all of Clyde Walcott (58), Everton Weekes (59), Keith Miller (67!!!) and Malcolm Marshall (75!!!!).

Marshall is certainly one of the most bizarre of all the rankings. Brownlee's view of the Windies quicks generally raises more than a few questions. By far the highest rated of the bunch - at number 17 - is Michael Holding. Curtly Ambrose is at number 35, while none of Andy Roberts, Courtney Walsh or - most surprisingly - Joel Garner make the list at all.

 

[The Sean]

I won't type out or copy the entire 100 here (though am happy to take questions) but for those interested, the Top Ten was:

1. Don Bradman
2. WG Grace
3. Jack Hobbs
4. Garry Sobers
5. Brian Lara
6. Ian Botham
7. Viv Richards
8. Len Hutton
9. Shane Warne
10. Wilfred Rhodes

A very batting-heavy list at the top end, especially when considering that the next three at 11-12-13 (Hammond-Gavaskar-Tendulkar) are all batsmen as well.

I've never before seen a list where Sobers is ranked outside the top three, and it is interesting that Rhodes makes the top ten here but none of his great all-round contemporaries - Faulkner, Noble or Woolley - make the top 100 at all.