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The ATG Teams General arguing/discussing thread

Coronis

International Vice-Captain
not including current players

Ashes XI

Hobbs
Sutcliffe
Bradman*
Hammond
Chappell
Barrington
Gilchrist+
Warne
Davidson
Trueman
McGrath

vs ROW XI

Gavaskar
Smith
Lara
Tendulkar
Kallis
Sobers
Sangakkara+
Hadlee
Marshall
Steyn
Murali
 

Sunil1z

U19 Cricketer
not including current players

Ashes XI

Hobbs
Sutcliffe
Bradman*
Hammond
Chappell
Barrington
Gilchrist+
Warne
Davidson
Trueman
McGrath

vs ROW XI

Gavaskar
Smith
Lara
Tendulkar
Kallis
Sobers
Sangakkara+
Hadlee
Marshall
Steyn
Murali
Richards over Kallis
And Smith over Chappell?
 

Coronis

International Vice-Captain
Richards over Kallis
And Smith over Chappell?
I rate Kallis over Richards. Plus he gives the team an extra bowler, alongside Sobers. He also is a good steadying presence in the middle order compared to the other more aggressive batsmen around him.

I said no current players, iirc Smith is still playing.
 

Prince EWS

Global Moderator
not including current players

Ashes XI

Hobbs
Hutton
Bradman*
Hammond
Chappell
Miller
Gilchrist+
Warne
Davidson
Barnes
McGrath

vs ROW XI

Gavaskar
Smith
Lara
Tendulkar
Kallis
Sobers
Sangakkara+
Imran
Hadlee
Marshall
Murali
Mostly agree with it. Made my changes in bold.

I think my standardised averages project actually agrees with you entirely other than wanting to pick Ambrose over Steyn and Barnes over Trueman though - funny when you agree with it more than I do. :laugh:
 

Coronis

International Vice-Captain
Mostly agree with it. Made my changes in bold.

I think my standardised averages project actually agrees with you entirely other than wanting to pick Ambrose over Steyn and Barnes over Trueman though - funny when you agree with it more than I do. :laugh:
I almost put Sutcliffe/Hutton to appease the haters :laugh: I almost went for Imran but decided to just chuck in my best bowlers since we have Sanga at 7 and Hadlee and Marshall shoring up the tail. Barnes was more a subconscious nahh for me just cos his era and unclear bowling style. Probably deserves the spot though.
 

The Sean

Cricketer Of The Year
Mostly agree with it. Made my changes in bold.

I think my standardised averages project actually agrees with you entirely other than wanting to pick Ambrose over Steyn and Barnes over Trueman though - funny when you agree with it more than I do. :laugh:
Shocked that you haven't picked Waite as your 'keeper!

I reckon I'd have Watling behind the stumps for the ROW side - minimal downgrade on Sanga as a batsman in that role, better suited to the number 7 slot, and a better 'keeper.
 

Prince EWS

Global Moderator
I almost put Sutcliffe/Hutton to appease the haters :laugh: I almost went for Imran but decided to just chuck in my best bowlers since we have Sanga at 7 and Hadlee and Marshall shoring up the tail. Barnes was more a subconscious nahh for me just cos his era and unclear bowling style. Probably deserves the spot though.
I was more comfortable with Barnes once I had Miller in there, it meant I still had three proper quicks and one proper spinner plus whatever h4x Barnes bowled.
 

The Sean

Cricketer Of The Year
Sanga will give you more batting output if your tail consists of Imran, Hadlee and Marshall
I'd be inclined to think that if your tail is Imran, Hadlee and Marshall then you can absorb the 2-3 fewer runs Watling will score in order to have the better, specialist gloveman in the side.
 

Sunil1z

U19 Cricketer
I'd be inclined to think that if your tail is Imran, Hadlee and Marshall then you can absorb the 2-3 fewer runs Watling will score in order to have the better, specialist gloveman in the side.
Watling averages 38 and Sanga 55. Are you assuming Sanga average as pure keeper?
 

Adorable Asshole

U19 Captain
Combined:

Sutcliffe
Hobbs
Bradman
Smith
Hammond
Miller
Gilchrist
Warne
Lillee
Alderman
McGrath


I would gladly take Hutton as an opener in place of Hobbs or Sutcliffe, this is where England have a real edge. I think in Ashes contests, Barrington vs Smith could be argued. I don't think any England bowler deserves in over any of the Australian 4.
This is better

Sutcliffe
Hobbs
Bradman
Smith
Botham
Miller
Gilchrist
Warne
Cummins
Barnes
Mcgrath
 

Adorable Asshole

U19 Captain
Gavaskar
Sehwag
Dravid
Tendulkar
Laxman/Kohli
Kapil
Pant/Dhoni
Kumble
Bumrah
Ishant
Shami

Is Kohli better at no.5 or Laxman?

Should Kumble a good enough captain or Dhoni should replace Pant as an inferior bat?
 

Xix2565

International 12th Man
Gavaskar
Sehwag
Dravid
Tendulkar
Laxman/Kohli
Kapil
Pant/Dhoni
Kumble
Bumrah
Ishant
Shami

Is Kohli better at no.5 or Laxman?

Should Kumble a good enough captain or Dhoni should replace Pant as an inferior bat?
Kohli's better, don't think Laxman is as reliable a batter. Also no Ashwin/Jadeja in options is bad tbh.

Captaincy is less important tbh, and Jumbo wouldn't be first choice anyway really. Pant over Dhoni for me.
 

Red

The normal awards that everyone else has
This is better

Sutcliffe
Hobbs
Bradman
Smith
Botham
Miller
Gilchrist
Warne
Cummins
Barnes
Mcgrath
Not sure how adding a much weaker batsman than Hammond in Botham makes it “better” when Miller is already in the team as the fifth bowling option.
 

Prince EWS

Global Moderator
I reckon Pant's probably already achieved more than Dhoni as a Test bat but his keeping, while on the right track, has been awful for most of his career. I'd pick Engineer for now tbh.
 

peterhrt

Cricket Spectator
Perhaps the most eagerly anticipated all-time England and Australia teams were those presented by The Cricketer magazine before the Centenary Test in 1977. The selectors were John Arlott, EW Swanton and David Frith, three men steeped in cricket history whose opinion counted. The teams were chosen for a five-day match with “the major considerations being team balance and intrinsic quality”, rather than statistics.

England: Grace, Hobbs, Hammond, Compton, Woolley, Ames, Tate, Larwood, Laker, Rhodes, Barnes.

At this time cricket historians still widely regarded Grace and Hobbs as the greatest English batsmen, followed by Hammond. Hutton was probably next but both opening slots were taken. Woolley's inclusion owed something to his left-handedness, all-round qualities, and the fact that he was a favourite of Swanton, who also wanted Evans as keeper but was overruled on the grounds of batting and inconsistency in county cricket.

Rhodes' mid-career batting was ignored. He was picked solely as the best slow left-armer in all conditions. That left a longish tail although Tate had been an all-rounder in county cricket, which selectors still took seriously.

Australia: Trumper, Simpson, Bradman, Macartney, Harvey, Miller, Oldfield, Lindwall, Trumble, Lillee, O'Reilly.

Simpson was preferred to Ponsford against the fastest bowling (both were actually more comfortable against spin). Greg Chappell was next middle order batsman in line. Trumble edged out Turner.

Thirty years later in 2009, Cricinfo invited panels of ten leading journalists to select an all-time Test XI for their country. Veteran David Frith was a member of both the English and Australian panels.

Only four Englishmen survived from 1977: Hobbs, Hammond, Larwood and Barnes. Two of those to make the Cricifo team had emerged since then: Botham and Pietersen, who scraped past Compton on a tie-break of readers' votes. The other five had been overlooked by The Cricketer panel: Hutton, Barrington, Knott, Trueman and Underwood. Admittedly Knott and Underwood were still playing back then, but so was Lillee whose Australian career had started after theirs.

Five Australians made both teams: Trumper, Bradman, Miller, Lillee and O'Reilly. Four of the Cricinfo selection were relatively new on the scene: Border, Gilchrist, Warne and McGrath, leaving just two who had been omitted in 1977: Morris and Greg Chappell.

Seven of the 2009 Australian team received eight or more panel votes (Morris, Border, O'Reilly and McGrath were the exceptions), compared with five Englishmen.

There appears to have been more consensus regarding the Australian all-time team.
 

Coronis

International Vice-Captain
Showing that Lillee romanticism when you don’t have 8/10 people voting for McGrath in an Aussie XI.
 

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