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The American Politics thread

indiaholic

International Captain
Agree with Ausage. Don't see why people are condoning Spencer being punched. Do I want him to be punched? Yep, pounded into the pavement fwiw but that doesn't excuse somebody actually doing it. Will just incite more people to take the violent route.
 

harsh.ag

Hall of Fame Member
I'd prefer if you didn't slander the name of Nazism by calling the alt-right, a group which is mostly non-white as semi-Nazis.

Millions of germans didn't die for that comparison.
I was calling "Spencer and his buddies" Nazis. No idea about the entire alt-right.

But if you make the "millions of Germans dying" argument, then I have the same question for you as I did for watson - Are you saying unless a group get the required political power and act on their Nazi beliefs, you think calling them Nazi is wrong? If you aren't saying this, then what does "peaceful ethinic cleansing of all non-white people" look like when you imagine it?
 

watson

Banned
I was calling "Spencer and his buddies" Nazis. No idea about the entire alt-right.

But if you make the "millions of Germans dying" argument, then I have the same question for you as I did for watson - Are you saying unless a group get the required political power and act on their Nazi beliefs, you think calling them Nazi is wrong? If you aren't saying this, then what does "peaceful ethinic cleansing of all non-white people" look like when you imagine it?
Rather similar to the past several years under the Democrats I would imagine. Nazis?

America’s deportation machine

The great expulsion


Barack Obama has presided over one of the largest peacetime outflows of people in America’s history


The great expulsion | The Economist
 

harsh.ag

Hall of Fame Member
Rather similar to the past several years under the Democrats I would imagine. Nazis?
watson, you just said deporting illegal immigrants is the same thing as forcing all non-white citizens out of the country. Have you taken leave of your senses?
 

Gnske

International Coach
But if you make the "millions of Germans dying" argument, then I have the same question for you as I did for watson - Are you saying unless a group get the required political power and act on their Nazi beliefs, you think calling them Nazi is wrong?
Yes, it's quite rude don't you think. It's an incorrect label and I'm as liberal as the next guy, but if someone tells me they aren't Nazi, I don't say "lol no, you're a Nazi". Harsh, it's not my right. And for sure it isn't yours. I think you just need to show more love to these people instead of hating them.
 

Uppercut

Request Your Custom Title Now!
I feel like this is ever so slightly off. While I agree the alt-right isn't strictly a neo-nazi movement (and it's often incorrectly portrayed as such) there is a white supremacist wing of the movement which can't be ignored. The movement having no formal leadership structure is an advantage in that an individual can disassociate themselves from the less savoury elements of the group by focusing on it's more reasonable positions (ie not allowing the narrative to be framed by the left) and a weakness because those less savoury elements will always turn off the mainstream. FWIW I think the movement will probably fracture as time goes on, with certain parts of it taken up by mainstream right-wing parties and the rest of it remaining at places like Stormfront.



When some of us say we see more capacity for a major threat of authoritarianism from the left this is precisely the kind of attitude we're talking about. The fact that a call for political violence can come from and be supported by people as intelligent as those on CW is far more concerning than the fact someone as universally despised as Spencer exists (and is given a platform by grubby media organisations looking to make money of him). This idea that we start and end the violence with white supremacists is utter horse**** as well. The thugs that will actually do the punching will not stop at people like Spencer. I'm actually amazed I'm having a conversation like this here.

We've seen so many posts here going on about the lessons of history as it applies to Nazi Germany. The reality is that authoritarian governments have existed in many many forms. Right & left, European, Asian, South American, Middle Eastern, secular and religious. Want to know what they all have in common? An absolute aversion to freedom of speech. It's the very first thing to go. An ideology that allows for the possibility of certain viewpoints being forcibly repressed is at the core of all great evil done in the name of politics. Of course it's tempting to force down vileness like that but doing so opens the door to destroying the mechanisms that actually make us safe against the worst things humans can do to each other.
Ah you're still getting the wrong end of the stick. You seem to think I'm pushing opinions on questions like 'should the state condone Nazi punching?' or 'Is Nazi-punching ethically justified?' I'm asking: how should I respond to seeing a Nazi punched? The answer is obviously 'point and laugh'. Lots of people seem to think the answer is 'debate the ethics of Nazi punching'. They're all wrong.
 

Ausage

Cricketer Of The Year
Ah you're still getting the wrong end of the stick. You seem to think I'm pushing opinions on questions like 'should the state condone Nazi punching?' or 'Is Nazi-punching ethically justified?' I'm asking: how should I respond to seeing a Nazi punched? The answer is obviously 'point and laugh'. Lots of people seem to think the answer is 'debate the ethics of Nazi punching'. They're all wrong.
Oh please. This whole line of commenting started with you posting that the left needed to punch more dickheads. I asked what that would achieve other than making you/them feel better. If the answer was "nothing, I just like watching it" you had ample opportunity to say so.
 

Spark

Global Moderator
Oh please. This whole line of commenting started with you posting that the left needed to punch more dickheads. I asked what that would achieve other than making you/them feel better. If the answer was "nothing, I just like watching it" you had ample opportunity to say so.
I thought it was pretty obvious all along what Uppercut was trying to say, tbh.
 

watson

Banned
With all the media nonsense about Spencer and crowd size a very significant statement by Tillerson seems to have slipped under the radar for the most part.


Chinese State Media Denounce Rex Tillerson’s Call to Block Island Access

BEIJING — The Chinese state news media lashed out at Rex W. Tillerson, President-elect Donald J. Trump’s nominee for secretary of state, on Friday, warning that his call to deny China access to islands it has constructed in the South China Sea could provoke a conflict.

Mr. Tillerson said during a confirmation hearing this week before the Senate Foreign Relations Committee that China’s efforts to build islands in the sea and to equip some with military equipment were illegal, and he drew comparisons to Russia’s annexation of Crimea in 2014.

State-run news outlets in China angrily denounced Mr. Tillerson’s remarks on Friday, vowing to counter any effort by the United States to intervene in the strategically significant waterway, which Beijing argues has been its territory since ancient times.

Global Times, a newspaper that often adopts a nationalistic tone, warned in an editorial that the United States might be forced to wage a “large-scale war” if it tried to block China from the islands.


https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/13/world/asia/rex-tillerson-south-china-sea.html?_r=0
It seems that the Trump administration is saying to China - "Yes we'll give you a TPP, but first you have to demilitarise those islands."

Whether the Chinese government comes on board with the threat will depend on how precarious their economy really is. At the minute it's teetering on the edge of astronomical debt - $28 trillion or 236% of GDP. Roughly half of the entire global debt.

http://www.businessinsider.com.au/china-debt-to-gdp-statistics-2016-1?r=UK&IR=T
http://www.economist.com/news/leade...-real-trouble-will-hit-china-coming-debt-bust
 
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NZTailender

I can't believe I ate the whole thing
Anyone else getting creeped out by the media's vindictive spotlight on Trump's marriage?
Yeah that's pretty rough. It's not like there's not a billion reasons to criticise Trump already or anything.

Whatever sells their **** I suppose...
 

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