• Welcome to the Cricket Web forums, one of the biggest forums in the world dedicated to cricket.

    You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join the Cricket Web community today!

    If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.

The American Politics thread

straw man

International Coach
The alt-right are basically the other side of the coin to progressives.
This is completely off-the-planet. While 'progressive' may only be loosely defined it certainly doesn't mean resentful communists aching for violence, which is what would be an actual counterpart to 'alt-right'.
 

Spark

Global Moderator
It's the kind of thing you say when you haven't talked much with actual socialists, who are fellow travellers at worst, or actual hardcore Marxists, who frankly are a frightening lot.
 

straw man

International Coach
Yes, the good thing about the left is that those elements are very very far away from the levers of political power (in the Anglo world), whereas on the right they are now running the show, in the US at least (though there are elements in the UK and Australia).
 

Ausage

Cricketer Of The Year
There are genuine far right extremists in the alt right but not all alt right are extremists. Kind of like the communist/progressive relationship tbh.
 

Ikki

Hall of Fame Member
This is completely off-the-planet. While 'progressive' may only be loosely defined it certainly doesn't mean resentful communists aching for violence, which is what would be an actual counterpart to 'alt-right'.
They're aching for violence against white people they think are racist and rich people right now. TYT actually calls itself "Rebel headquarters" :laugh:. You don't have to be a communist to be violent.

It's the kind of thing you say when you haven't talked much with actual socialists, who are fellow travellers at worst, or actual hardcore Marxists, who frankly are a frightening lot.
I'm Iranian...I know plenty of socialists, even marxists and plenty of monarchists. There's no shortage of 'solutions' amongst us. You could actually argue that the current regime was brought about with many socialist ideals and currently dominate the politics and economics of the country still. It's like the bastard child of theocracy and socialist ideals.
 
Last edited:

indiaholic

International Captain
Oye Ikki if you have any idea bout Iranian food, please post in the cricketweb food thread. I have heard it is awesome.
 

Top_Cat

Request Your Custom Title Now!
Can't tell if this is sarcasm or not.
Come on.

They're aching for violence against white people they think are racist and rich people right now. TYT actually calls itself "Rebel headquarters" :laugh:. You don't have to be a communist to be violent.



I'm Iranian...I know plenty of socialists, even marxists and plenty of monarchists. There's no shortage of 'solutions' amongst us. You could actually argue that the current regime was brought about with many socialist ideals and currently dominate the politics and economics of the country still. It's like the bastard child of theocracy and socialist ideals.
My own experience of those calling themselves Marxists is talk of violent revolution followed by lots of weed then legal practice.
 

Spark

Global Moderator
They're aching for violence against white people they think are racist and rich people right now. TYT actually calls itself "Rebel headquarters" :laugh:. You don't have to be a communist to be violent.



I'm Iranian...I know plenty of socialists, even marxists and plenty of monarchists. There's no shortage of 'solutions' amongst us. You could actually argue that the current regime was brought about with many socialist ideals and currently dominate the politics and economics of the country still. It's like the bastard child of theocracy and socialist ideals.
I'm not really talking about political positions, I'm talking about attitude tbf. Most socialists I know are more or less like the rest of us in their approach to political process, but the seriously hardcore Marxists want to burn everything down and don't care one bit who gets caught in the way. Serious ends justify the means taken to its logical extreme.
 

OverratedSanity

Request Your Custom Title Now!
There are genuine far right extremists in the alt right but not all alt right are extremists. Kind of like the communist/progressive relationship tbh.
Not all nazis were extremists either and many of the alt-right's beliefs are in line with neo-nazism. So I can call them nazis, right? Cool.
 

vic_orthdox

Global Moderator
It's the kind of thing you say when you haven't talked much with actual socialists, who are fellow travellers at worst, or actual hardcore Marxists, who frankly are a frightening lot.
Like watching Hannity with that Buzzfeed reporter earlier. :wallbash:
 

Ausage

Cricketer Of The Year
Seriously. "Politician breaks campaign promise" is well worn trope but considering how much I heard about how there was no reason to believe Trump would moderate after becoming President I genuinely wasn't sure which way you were going.

Not all nazis were extremists either and many of the alt-right's beliefs are in line with neo-nazism. So I can call them nazis, right? Cool.
I'm a free speech guy. Go nuts.
 

Ikki

Hall of Fame Member
Come on.

My own experience of those calling themselves Marxists is talk of violent revolution followed by lots of weed then legal practice.
:laugh:

I'm not really talking about political positions, I'm talking about attitude tbf. Most socialists I know are more or less like the rest of us in their approach to political process, but the seriously hardcore Marxists want to burn everything down and don't care one bit who gets caught in the way. Serious ends justify the means taken to its logical extreme.
Ah I see, my bad. The Persian monarchists I've encountered tend to be the ones who're the way you describe hardcore marxists - they want to wipe away any notion of religion or Arabness. Clearly, these wide definitions differ for cultural and historic reasons.

I guess the concern, from which my statements originate, is that I am not so worried about labels or proposed ideologies as I am with the actions that inevitably muddy certain like-minded people with their more extremist counterparts. I'm not sure if it's correct but I think there's a danger that should be recognised. That while progressives or the alt-right or 'other' may be different to marxists or nazis or other's-more-extremist element; when **** is really hitting the fan and people are drawing lines you can see who is heading where.

I actually agree with the people who fear the alt-right but not because I think they're all, or even a significant majority, racists/nazis, etc; but because of the possibility that if **** hits the fan they'll take the others with them through fear of them and of uncertainty. The same with the left and their moderates and extremists. Where I disagree is when we actively miss or ignore these distinctions because it inevitably becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy and increases the likelihood that these dangerous elements take over.

The progressives want to connect the alt-right - which is not even a movement with a proper organisation - to racism and nazism, etc, so bad because it allows them to be a direct opposition to them and it makes them look like good fighting evil. I think people collectively around the world - because it looks like it is spreading - have to disavow these simplistic notions as much as they need to disavow the more extremist notions each opposing side carry. I know it's starting to become a tired theme of my posting, but the ones more in the middle and somewhat sane need to push both these elements out of the mainstream. Even better if its conservatives vs alt-right or liberals vs progressives because if it's just one side fighting the other, that's when the line starts to be drawn in the middle dividing us all rather than the sides, so that it divides us away from these more hateful/forceful elements.

Trump has disavowed the Spencer congregation and I'm really happy about that. If he also criticises the other side's looneys when they go too far, he'll really do well. He has the potential to unite the country and create a modern populist movement for a less divisive America. It really needs it, because the divisions created by the rabid ends of the isle have been going on for too long.
 
Last edited:

straw man

International Coach
They're aching for violence against white people they think are racist and rich people right now. TYT actually calls itself "Rebel headquarters" :laugh:. You don't have to be a communist to be violent.
I had no idea what TYT was and had to look it up - so I see it's some TV/web show. I'm not going to watch it, so for argument's sake if it's as you say then oh hooray, one more semi-popular extremist. Fairly notably though, the host is not the POTUS or serving in that administration.

I even looked up 'Progressive' for interest's sake and it's barely defined, and no more specific than Left, perhaps sans traditional labour union base, perhaps with some ideal of improving social justice*, and as a literal opposite to conservative/traditionalist. It's not extreme in the slightest and I can't think of a major-party progressive politician anywhere with particularly extreme views, and certainly not violent (while there are some in the more traditional far-left minor parties). A counterpoint to conservative, not 'alt-right'.

* this is not a bad word
 
Last edited:

Ikki

Hall of Fame Member
I had no idea what TYT was and had to look it up - so I see it's some TV/web show. I'm not going to watch it, so for argument's sake if it's as you say then oh hooray, one more semi-popular extremist. Fairly notably though, the host is not the POTUS or serving in that administration.

I even looked up 'Progressive' for interest's sake and it is no more specific than Left, perhaps sans traditional labour union base, perhaps with some ideal of improving social justice*, and as a literal opposite to conservative/traditionalist. It's not extreme in the slightest and I can't think of a major-party progressive politician anywhere with particularly extreme views, and certainly not violent (while there are some in the more traditional far-left minor parties). A counterpoint to conservative, not 'alt-right'.

* this is not a bad word
I follow TYT because it allows me to keep tabs on progressive talking points. I am not saying they are the definitive organisational base or anything, but they actively promote and encourage it to a large scale. They were basically Bernie Sanders headquarters during the election. Since the election they've upped their rhetoric and have been even more forceful with distinguishing themselves from normal liberals or democrats. I am not sure what constitutes a good gauge for a movement, but when you read around enough of the more prominent propagators, it's not that hard to decipher where this is going IMO.

You're missing the trees with the bolded. You don't think Bernie Sanders is a major party progressive or that he isn't harmful? Because he's definitely the former and to a lot of people he's also harmful and definitely violent. People use a wider definition than physical assaults as violent tbf.

Are you claiming Trump is an alt-right extremist? Because he's not. He may have used that crowd for votes, but he's no different IMO than a President that appeases the far left and wants to impose minimum wages or increase taxation to the rich. Something tells me you won't think these are bad things though :p.

Again, I think you're simply not appreciating any of what the other side is saying and that is why you can't see what they think is an extreme element. Social justice warriors became a bad term because the alt-right acknowledged the fact that the progressives went way too far with a liberal concept. Honestly, I think it's a pretty clear thing that progressivism, the way it is followed in America, is the counterpoint to the alt-right or whatever you consider the more extremist element of the conservatives and it has been all along; regardless of whether it had a name or a proper movement.

It's no coincidence that the two sides attack each other in very direct ways. The uniforms have already been picked out mate, I think you're late to the party.
 
Last edited:

Top