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The American Politics thread

Gnske

International Coach
But yeah honestly he's a dreadful person, petulant child given a pedestal to stand upon to look taller.
 

NZTailender

I can't believe I ate the whole thing
Seeing the likes of Cenk Uygur melting down at this result has almost been worth Trump being President.

Honestly, I gotta say that I bought into the narrative that he didn't have a chance. From Australia, it's hard to really gauge how America is feeling (and I'm not too convinced by polls a lot of the time) but I thought Moore's article on Huffington post about Trump winning was enlightening and felt true at the same time.

I also think that both sides of the political isle are responsible for this. There are many issues of disagreement but I think the one in recent years that has shaped this election was political correctness. The Rs never hid from their xenophobic core but the Ds got ridiculous with their political correctness on the other hand. I think people have gotten tired of being called stupid and/or bigoted. The reality is that the average person is going to have a problem with things like trans toilets, even if it is argued for fairness. The left kept shoving their virtues down the throats of others. You can name many examples that became big issues (gay cake another one) and became an excuse for virtue signalling. People have lost the capacity to disagree and get on with their lives. Government has not only corrupted the politicians but also the people who vy for that power through their representatives.

Good article: Trump Won Because Leftist Political Correctness Inspired a Terrifying Backlash - Hit & Run : Reason.com
Good post. Thought provoking, and that was a good article to read.

It's hard because the viewpoints from both sides seem illogical to believe for the other. In my experience people who are tired of being called stupid/bigoted because of their viewpoints don't really question their viewpoint when it comes to a discussion about it, leading to frustration from the person they're arguing with, hence getting called bigoted. And they get called bigoted because the people calling them that are tired of being called a whole manner of things, their whole life, from bigoted people who are about as enlightened as the Old Testament. In general, one side wants change so they aren't living a life where they're invisible whereas the other feels as though they're becoming invisible because their way of life, that feels like it's been there forever, is changing faster than they can keep up.
 

Flem274*

123/5
zinzan is the whitest poster in this thread after watson and im the one who rides the ****ing horse

my thoughts on "why" he got in...pretty much in agreement with the power narrative

a somali bloke was stoked trump got in yesterday and my former landlady, a middle class white woman, will be too. neither belong to groups who you'd think he appeals to. the middle class white womans son is more trumps perceived support group, and sure enough he loves him too because he's an alpha and will send all the darkies back where they came from.

every supporter of his i've had the misfortune to meet has repeated a long or short version of what somali bloke said - "strong man. strong man. very good for america".

people follow perceived strength, and being a **** gives morons the impression the **** is strong. trump does what he likes, takes what he wants and provides easy answers and enemies for us.

these people love that he could "shoot someone at his rally and get away with it". they love that he's gonna build a wall for the tribe. they love that he's gonna kill ISIS. they love that he grabs 'em by the *****.

big strong man hits things with club. say strong words. clinton scheme. clinton all clever and conniving and weak woman. bad for tribe.

basically america unintentionally voted in favour of humans being related to chimps.
 
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Prince EWS

Global Moderator
One of my friends posted this on Facebook about the (undesirable) shift away from values politics and towards identity politics and how the alt-right and Trump more generally is more or less just a specific manifestation of that. It really ties in to Ikki's post (which shouldn't surprise me given who wrote it, really):

In a democracy, people can either vote for their values (the cliche left-right spectrum) or they can vote their identity (religion, ***uality, ethnicity). I believe that identity democracy is dangerous, and a significant threat to the western world.

Once an identity group has a majority, it is relatively easy for them to retain power, and they can safely ignore those groups that don't have power. Identity-democracy has a very weak incentive for politicians to be inclusive or informed, since their power is unrelated to policy, and entirely based on maintaining the demographic dominance of their identity group. As a couple of examples, the vote in South Africa tends to follow ethnic lines and the vote in Iraq follows religious divisions.


The western world has been lucky enough to have value-based democracy through most of our history, with the perpetual struggle between the vague concepts of "centre-left" and "centre-right"... but I fear this is currently changing. The so-called SJWs (aka regressives, or PC-brigade, or "cultural Marxists", or left-authoritarians) have pursued a policy of intersectionality, where they promote grievances based on identity groups and then the merging of those identity groups to fight against the "white het-cis patriarchy". This sort of identity politics has given the SJWs a short-term political advantage. Unfortunately it has also spawned a reaction, with a growing number of white het-cis men accepting the new reality of identity politics, feeling their identity group is under attack, and voting accordingly.


Both the SJWs and the alt-right see politics as a battle of identity groups. Those of us who continue to focus on values (whether left-liberal, libertarian, socialist, or conservative) are being sidelined by the increasingly acrimonious identity-politics of race, religion, ***, and ***uality. I miss the "good old days" where people disagreed with me on values, because at least with a debate about values it's theoretically possible to change people's mind... not so with identity politics... and that's dangerous.
 

Zinzan

Request Your Custom Title Now!
zinzan is the whitest poster in this thread after watson and im the one who rides the ****ing horse
Is calling somebody 'white' supposed to be one of these new sjw insults? I'm assuming so.

And do you grant yourself a special colour too, and if so, what does that make you?
 

Flem274*

123/5
Is calling somebody 'white' supposed to be one of these new sjw insults? I'm assuming so.

And do you grant yourself a special colour too, and if so, what does that make you?
im the red crayon

#allsexisrape #killallwhitemen something something #smashthestate #feministanarchy #thissoundsSJWright?
 

zorax

likes this
What's the general consensus on how Bernie would have done had he won the primaries?
I think he would have crushed Trump

Hits on the same anti-establishment nerve + young voters were far more enthusiastic for him + no scandals, clean track record and more charisma + not a racist/***ist/xenephobic meglomaniac
 

Gnske

International Coach
What's the general consensus on how Bernie would have done had he won the primaries?
Would have liked to have thought he would have won.

But for being such a "meticulous" and well prepared candidate, if Hillary was ambushed this hard, agree with Pews that he likely still would have lost. His game in the Rust belt would have been interesting.
 

Jono

Virat Kohli (c)
I would have thought Biden would have done better than Sanders. Sure he would have been establishment but you'd think he's less polarising, and would have got two of Michigan, Penn and Ohio
 

Prince EWS

Global Moderator
I would have thought Biden would have done better than Sanders. Sure he would have been establishment but you'd think he's less polarising, and would have got two of Michigan, Penn and Ohio
Yep, I think Biden would have won.

Someone with the exact same policies as Hillary but less baggage would have won IMO. Narrowly, with similar swings in those rust belt areas, but they would have won.
 

Spark

Global Moderator
One of my friends posted this on Facebook about the (undesirable) shift away from values politics and towards identity politics and how the alt-right and Trump more generally is more or less just a specific manifestation of that. It really ties in to Ikki's post (which shouldn't surprise me given who wrote it, really):
I do wonder if this is more effect than cause; I'm thinking a lot more carefully about the leftist thesis that centrist liberal-conservative economic consensus has given us no new ideas or no fundamental explanations for what's been going on in the last 30 years, and absent that true contest of ideas, politics has become entirely a game of numbers via assembling coalitions, which naturally lends to more identity style politics.

Then again, I also think that the idea that white identity politics is in any way novel is historically nonsense.
 

Zinzan

Request Your Custom Title Now!
Yep, I think Biden would have won.

Someone with the exact same policies as Hillary but less baggage would have won IMO. Narrowly, with similar swings in those rust belt areas, but they would have won.
Yeah, as much as antiestablishment still would have been a thing for Trump vs, Biden, Biden still would have had enough support to win...

Many are unaware Trump got less votes than McCain and Romney, it's just Hillary had even less willing to turn out for her.. #worstcandidates.com
 

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