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The American Politics thread

harsh.ag

Hall of Fame Member
California has really shot themselves in the foot with their housing development policies so maybe if they split into three, one of those will get some sense.
 

Uppercut

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The closer government gets to the local the better imo.
There's sort of a paradox in this for libertarians though, because people tend to vote for much more hands-on politics from local governments. People are more likely to vote for small-government policies if they think of government as aloof and mistrusted.
 

Anil

International Coach
nothing will come of it...my only hope was that these obvious scandals and corruptions will help the dems win back some seats in the senate and the house but that party is just not tough enough, on the one hand, we have a completely ruthless, amoral entity in the gop, on the other, we have a spineless bunch of weenies in the dems...the disinformation campaign by trump and his minions on the mueller investigation is working big-time for them, the people who believe the investigation is needed is in the low 50s now and dropping fast...i think they are waiting for it to drop well below 50% so trump can fire mueller and dismiss the investigation without any serious political repercussions for himself or the party...
 

smalishah84

The Tiger King
nothing will come of it...my only hope was that these obvious scandals and corruptions will help the dems win back some seats in the senate and the house but that party is just not tough enough, on the one hand, we have a completely ruthless, amoral entity in the gop, on the other, we have a spineless bunch of weenies in the dems...the disinformation campaign by trump and his minions on the mueller investigation is working big-time for them, the people who believe the investigation is needed is in the low 50s now and dropping fast...i think they are waiting for it to drop well below 50% so trump can fire mueller and dismiss the investigation without any serious political repercussions for himself or the party...
the investigation doesn't seem to be going anywhere tbf. Just seems to be looking like a waste of taxpayer money without any results. Its already been 1.5 years and barely anything.
 

Anil

International Coach
the special counsel investigation into bill clinton took what, 4 years? these are slow moving by nature, take time...we have had 20 odd indictments and 5 guilty pleas from indicted people already...doesn't sound like nothing to me...having said that i am 100% sure trump won't be impeached regardless of what they come up with...
 

smalishah84

The Tiger King
the special counsel investigation into bill clinton took what, 4 years? these are slow moving by nature, take time...we have had 20 odd indictments and 5 guilty pleas from indicted people already...doesn't sound like nothing to me...having said that i am 100% sure trump won't be impeached regardless of what they come up with...
Fair enough on your point.

Agree with the bolded completely.

Which is why the special investigation seems kind of useless given that nothing will happen to Trump.
 

Anil

International Coach
Fair enough on your point.

Agree with the bolded completely.

Which is why the special investigation seems kind of useless given that nothing will happen to Trump.
my hope was that the investigation would still open people's minds as to the fraud, con artist and the potential traitor he is and would help the dems in the 2018 and 2020 elections but those hopes have faded...it still would be dangerous to u.s democracy as a whole if the president abused his power that way (firing mueller and/or stopping the investigation) and got away with it so i am hoping that doesn't happen...
 

Ausage

Cricketer Of The Year
There's sort of a paradox in this for libertarians though, because people tend to vote for much more hands-on politics from local governments. People are more likely to vote for small-government policies if they think of government as aloof and mistrusted.
Well if people are still voting for force then they aren't ready for glorious Libertopia.

But in all seriousness I do stand by the point. I think the closer decisions are made to the individual the better they tend to be, while bad decisions tend to have less catastrophic effects as they're more localised. Feedback loops also get theoretically better the closer those making the decisions are to those affected by them.

Speaking generally there ofc.
 

Uppercut

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Well if people are still voting for force then they aren't ready for glorious Libertopia.

But in all seriousness I do stand by the point. I think the closer decisions are made to the individual the better they tend to be, while bad decisions tend to have less catastrophic effects as they're more localised. Feedback loops also get theoretically better the closer those making the decisions are to those affected by them.

Speaking generally there ofc.
Yeah I think this is true more often than not too. It's just very tricky to maintain because when you try to decentralise you can end up with a lot of local tyrannies, hence pro-slavery groups were able to frame their arguments in terms of states rights. Not that I'm opposed to decentralisation, I'd just add that the details matter a lot.
 

Spark

Global Moderator
I do hope that localism becomes more of a thing tbh. But it's not an accident that local councils often end up full of wannabe petty dictators with inferiority complexes.
 

Spark

Global Moderator
Okay for all the other stuff we talk about, this stuff about family separations is utterly disgusting - as it is with offshore detention down here - and it's hard to square pretty much anything else being of major importance next to kids being locked up and not permitted to speak to family for more than 10 minutes at a time.
 

StephenZA

International Coach
Okay for all the other stuff we talk about, this stuff about family separations is utterly disgusting - as it is with offshore detention down here - and it's hard to square pretty much anything else being of major importance next to kids being locked up and not permitted to speak to family for more than 10 minutes at a time.
I have been reading so much about what is being done and it is pretty horrendous.....
 

Flem274*

123/5
I'm very suspicious of localism because of the massive tribalist element. There are too many people who couldn't give a **** about the people living outside their area already, and history is littered with small local societies constantly fighting wars with each other.
 

Spark

Global Moderator
I'm very suspicious of localism because of the massive tribalist element. There are too many people who couldn't give a **** about the people living outside their area already, and history is littered with small local societies constantly fighting wars with each other.
Yeah one of the key achievements of modernity is to enlarge the spaces which are essentially "free" of warfare, so it at least occurs rarely and between nation state sized entities. Nonetheless, I do think that societal development would be better served in that direction.
 

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