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Spinners Touring Australia Twice

vic_orthdox

Global Moderator
How many spinners have done it in recent times? And how many have done it successfully. I'm talking about Tests here.

The point is that a lot of spinners come to Australia, and aren't very successful over here (well, during the past 15 years or so, as a general rule). I know it's a big generalisation, but it's reasonably accurate. However, these spinners aren't given the chance to learn from their mistakes - you learn a lot more in hindsight than what you do during the actual tour.

So, who are some spinners who have come to Aus twice, and have they done better the first time around, or the second?

Boje, Bhajj, Dawson, Kaneria, Saqlain, Henderson, plus more all have had just one tour. Vettori is the obvious one, and I don't know what the stats say, but he's bowled better each time he's come over, IMO. See also - Kumble, Anil.
 
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Jono

Virat Kohli (c)
Kumble immediately popped in my head when talking about improvement. Good point.
 

Beleg

International Regular
If you are willing to include ODI's then Saqlain has performed fairly well.

Had an excellent ODI series in 96-97 and took a six-fer at Hobart in that humilating 99-00 series. (solid performances in ODI's as well? though he was overshadowed by Razzaq)
 

vic_orthdox

Global Moderator
Beleg said:
If you are willing to include ODI's then Saqlain has performed fairly well.

Had an excellent ODI series in 96-97 and took a six-fer at Hobart in that humilating 99-00 series. (solid performances in ODI's as well? though he was overshadowed by Razzaq)
I was more referring to how spin bowlers on their first Test tours in Aus don't seem to perform all that well, and never really get the chance to improve on it.

Might sometimes have a bit to do with the bowler himself being no good anyways (not referring to Saqlain).
 

honestbharani

Whatever it takes!!!
I think it is obvious that anyone who tours more than once to a particular country will do well there more often than not. It is just logical, isn't it?
 

wpdavid

International Coach
IIRC Phil Tufnell did better on his first tour (1990/91) than subsequently. Not sure what that proves, though.

I'm trying to remember other English spinners that have gone to Aus in the last 15 years or so. Giles went for the first time in 2002/03 and will tour again this year if fit. Dawson probably won't tour this winter, but that has nothing to do with what happened 4 years ago. Such only toured once, but he was already pretty old by then so another Ashes tour was never on the cards.

EDIT
I'd forgotten that Croft toured in 1998/99. I think he may have retired once or twice by 2002/03.
 
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wpdavid

International Coach
vic_orthdox said:
How many spinners have done it in recent times? And how many have done it successfully. I'm talking about Tests here.



Boje, Bhajj, Dawson, Kaneria, Saqlain, Henderson, plus more all have had just one tour. Vettori is the obvious one, and I don't know what the stats say, but he's bowled better each time he's come over, IMO. See also - Kumble, Anil.
How often have India toured Aus since Bhaji emerged? Ditto Pakistan & Kaneria?
 

Barney Rubble

International Coach
James90 said:
Nagamootoo, Chandana, Salzburger, Kartik, Botha won't return.
I'd wager Dawson won't either, unless he has a holiday home in Sydney. I can't imagine a circumstance in which he might play Test cricket again - other than injuries to Ashley Giles, Monty Panesar, Shaun Udal, Graeme Swann, Gareth Batty, Gary Keedy, Alex Loudon, Ian Blackwell, Nayan Doshi, Min Patel, James Middlebrook, Simon Marshall and Paul Weekes, of course......:p
 

cpr

International Coach
oh come on, if all them got injured you know they'll bring Schofield out of retirement.
 

Autobahn

State 12th Man
James90 said:
Nagamootoo, Chandana, Salzburger, Kartik, Botha won't return.
To be fair Nagamootoo wasn't a first choice spinner anyway and also played a couple of tests after that, and he won't play again mainly due to the fact gayle is a good enough offy in order not to bother with a specialist spinner.

Chandana is still in and around the first-team and so there's no ruling him out.

Kartik was always third choice in the india spin line-up and so him not touring Aus is hardly down to how he performed in aus

And you can't rule out Botha basically as the saffers have not much else to turn to and he can always correct his action.

And Salzburger was never going to be a permanment fixture in the team with vettori around.
 

Smudge

Hall of Fame Member
Sulzberger was never going to be a permanent fixture in the team with any spinner with even a modicum of talent around.
 

James90

Cricketer Of The Year
No-one with a bowling action that is 50 degrees over the limit can refine their action and become a better bowler as a result. Botha won't return.
 

Autobahn

State 12th Man
James90 said:
No-one with a bowling action that is 50 degrees over the limit can refine their action and become a better bowler as a result. Botha won't return.
50 degrees? are you sure? Where's that figure from?
 

Arjun

Cricketer Of The Year
It's a misconception that visiting teams will be served better in Australia if they pack their team with seamers, as we have seen with India and SL. Teams have to pick their best bowlers.
 

wpdavid

International Coach
Barney Rubble said:
I'd wager Dawson won't either, unless he has a holiday home in Sydney. I can't imagine a circumstance in which he might play Test cricket again - other than injuries to Ashley Giles, Monty Panesar, Shaun Udal, Graeme Swann, Gareth Batty, Gary Keedy, Alex Loudon, Ian Blackwell, Nayan Doshi, Min Patel, James Middlebrook, Simon Marshall and Paul Weekes, of course......:p
I had the shock of my life when I saw a Ceefax headline on Saturday about Dawson being placed on standby. Turned out they meant the footballer, but they had me worried for moment.
 

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