South African cricket racism issue: Report implicates Smith, Boucher and de Villiers

[smash84]

Job done for the cronyists?

did you mean cronjist?

 

[Stefan9]

CSA are real clowns. They were never going to prove racism here. There was discrimination but it was nepotism not racism.

How CSA lost racism case after trying to 'trap' Smith in Boucher appointment debate | Sport

CSA was found to have attempted to "trap" its former director Graeme Smith during their arbitration hearing in the racial discrimination matter involving Mark Boucher's appointment over Enoch Nkwe, which cost them its case.

www.news24.com

 

[StephenZA]

CSA are real clowns. They were never going to prove racism here. There was discrimination but it was nepotism not racism.

Form of nepotism... it was giving a job to somebody your trusted could do what needed to be done, and due to external pressures did not consider others. It was not nepotism in the sense that you gave a job to somebody purely to give them a job and take money for nothing.

Even when it happened I did not think it was a bad decision, but did think the optics was poor.

 

[Stefan9]

Form of nepotism... it was giving a job to somebody your trusted could do what needed to be done, and due to external pressures did not consider others. It was not nepotism in the sense that you gave a job to somebody purely to give them a job and take money for nothing.

Even when it happened I did not think it was a bad decision, but did think the optics was poor.

Can be argued both ways.

Bringing your under qualified friend in from the outside can definitely be argued as nepotism.

I thought it was a terrible idea, still think so.

But my point is CSA could actually argue this trying argue racism was a non starter.

 

[social]

Can be argued both ways.

Bringing your under qualified friend in from the outside can definitely be argued as nepotism.

I thought it was a terrible idea, still think so.

But my point is CSA could actually argue this trying argue racism was a non starter.

Boucher played more than 450 games for his country (often in a leadership role) and has an excellent domestic coaching record

He’s very well qualified

 

[Stefan9]

Boucher played more than 450 games for his country (often in a leadership role) and has an excellent domestic coaching record

He’s very well qualified

He "played" not coached. The requirement for the job was a level 4 coaching certificate.

He has a good domestic record, great first season then average seasons compared to titans standards.

So legally he is under qualified.

Why he never did get the extra 2 levels only he can answer. All those who played with him who wanted to be head coaches got the level 4 certificates.

 

[social]

He "played" not coached. The requirement for the job was a level 4 coaching certificate.

He has a good domestic record, great first season then average seasons compared to titans standards.

So legally he is under qualified.

Why he never did get the extra 2 levels only he can answer. All those who played with him who wanted to be head coaches got the level 4 certificates.

Level 4 coaching was not a mandatory requirement

Gary Kirsten didn’t have one and he coached SA

Explainer - why Graeme Smith was cleared of racially discriminatory conduct

The arbitrators found flaws in the process of some of the decisions taken at CSA, but none that established race-based bias

www.espncricinfo.com

Sorry but saying Boucher isn’t qualified is laughable

 

[StephenZA]

He "played" not coached. The requirement for the job was a level 4 coaching certificate.

He has a good domestic record, great first season then average seasons compared to titans standards.

So legally he is under qualified.

Why he never did get the extra 2 levels only he can answer. All those who played with him who wanted to be head coaches got the level 4 certificates.

Need to read some of the legals that came out of the Smith arbitration. The argument regarding legal requirements for level 4 is an outright lie.

For some of the previous advertisements for head coach they put it down as a “it would be good to have” but it was never a mandatory requirement. As had already been stated Kirsten and a number of others did not have it.

The position was never even advertised, and Smith made it abundantly clear that if he was appointed he wanted to appoint Boucher immediately as head coach because he felt he had the experience to take SA out of the doldrums. CSA and management accepted this.

We can agree/disagree that Boucher should have been appointed or not. And/or the manner in which it was done. But it was in no way under handed or illegal. It was done openly with all interested parties aware of what was going on.

 

[Dendarii]

What does having a level 4 coaching certificate actually mean?

I know nothing about coaching qualifications, but to my mind having practical experience coaching at the highest level of domestic cricket seems like it would at least make you a viable candidate for an the job of coaching the national side. What difference would it have made if Boucher had had that qualification?

 

[TheJediBrah]

What does having a level 4 coaching certificate actually mean?

nothing in practice tbh. Like having a personal training qualification

 

[social]

nothing in practice tbh. Like having a personal training qualification

Friend of mine coached 2 juniors up to state level and did a bit of work with them even after they played test cricket

He needed qualifications for something so rang the state cricket association who posted the certificate out in the mail

No tests or anything

They simply knew who he was and the players that he coached

I would be amazed if guys like Ponting had any formal qualifications

 

[Stefan9]

What does having a level 4 coaching certificate actually mean?

I know nothing about coaching qualifications, but to my mind having practical experience coaching at the highest level of domestic cricket seems like it would at least make you a viable candidate for an the job of coaching the national side. What difference would it have made if Boucher had had that qualification?

Do you trust a specialist more then a general practioner?
There's a reason why there are 2 extra coaching levels.

Need to read some of the legals that came out of the Smith arbitration. The argument regarding legal requirements for level 4 is an outright lie.

For some of the previous advertisements for head coach they put it down as a “it would be good to have” but it was never a mandatory requirement. As had already been stated Kirsten and a number of others did not have it.

The position was never even advertised, and Smith made it abundantly clear that if he was appointed he wanted to appoint Boucher immediately as head coach because he felt he had the experience to take SA out of the doldrums. CSA and management accepted this.

We can agree/disagree that Boucher should have been appointed or not. And/or the manner in which it was done. But it was in no way under handed or illegal. It was done openly with all interested parties aware of what was going on.

Fair enough.
I personally believe coaching levels should be mandatory like it is across all football leagues.

 

[Stefan9]

Friend of mine coached 2 juniors up to state level and did a bit of work with them even after they played test cricket

He needed qualifications for something so rang the state cricket association who posted the certificate out in the mail

No tests or anything

They simply knew who he was and the players that he coached

I would be amazed if guys like Ponting had any formal qualifications

International cricketers get the first 2 levels automatically. They are awarded for their international experience. So ponting would have atleast a level 2.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Do you trust a specialist more then a general practioner?
There's a reason why there are 2 extra coaching levels.

That is such a random, terrible analogy lol

 

[Dendarii]

Do you trust a specialist more then a general practioner?
There's a reason why there are 2 extra coaching levels.

That didn't answer my question. I was asking about specifics, not a statement of the obvious that having a higher level is better.

This gives some information as to what the higher levels cover - things like player management and analysis. But those are also skills which could in theory be picked up on the job. So that could explain why a Level 4 was just a preference as they would need to weigh up whether someone without it had enough coaching experience for lack of the qualification not to matter (or least they would under normal circumstances).

 

[Line and Length]

These coaching qualifications have, IMO, become a typically current way of looking at things. I coached junior and senior football (AFL) and cricket and the results achieved and feedback received have all been positive. My qualifications ? QBE ... qualified by experience.
Having a piece of paper doesn't make one more qualified than those that have lived and breathed a game.

 

[TheJediBrah]

That didn't answer my question. I was asking about specifics, not a statement of the obvious that having a higher level is better.

Obvious? It's not even necessarily true at all in this context

Would rather go for an experienced international cricketer with the right attributes than someone inferior who happens to have a meaningless qualification

 

[jayjay]

These coaching qualifications have, IMO, become a typically current way of looking at things. I coached junior and senior football (AFL) and cricket and the results achieved and feedback received have all been positive. My qualifications ? QBE ... qualified by experience.
Having a piece of paper doesn't make one more qualified than those that have lived and breathed a game.

You've gone from first class cricketer to AFL coach who receives no negative feedback whatsoever. You must be the greatest sporting mind on the planet.

 

[Line and Length]

You've gone from first class cricketer to AFL coach who receives no negative feedback whatsoever. You must be the greatest sporting mind on the planet.

What planet are you on? AFL coaches come under immense criticism from media and fans whenever they have a bit of a losing streak. Besides, you miss my point. Much of the qualifications for these coaching levels (and I've been there) are theory based whereas there is no substitute for experience at the coalface. Your sarcasm is unbecoming from one so young.

 

[Niall]

Jesus still investigating why Tsolekile was not picked.

It's simple, the team would have been weakened with his selection and they were on absolute fire at the time.

What would Tsolekile have brought to the team? ABDV was keeping pretty well and the batting would have been weakened.

Absurd this is still a story.