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South African cricket racism issue: Report implicates Smith, Boucher and de Villiers

Nintendo

Cricketer Of The Year
I am seeing some LA Elgar stats posted in this thread. Sr 82?? Average 42??? I am too drunk and lazy to search for it in thread.

I do remember that the time when Elgar was pushed into the team (maybe same time) he had a LA SR of between 76 and 78. Very confident of that. I think he was averaging 38, not completely confident of that.

His current stats sound tollerable, but I remember looking at them at the time and thinking WTF? AR argument that ppl raised earlier never occurred to me at the time, just saying what i remember.
I wasn't following SA cricket at the time but based on how Elgar was used in the A series prior compared to the other player discussed it was clear that he was viewed as a far more competent 5th/6th bowler by management

The Elgar stats I posted where current, can't imagine they where much worse around the time of his callup.
 
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Bolo.

International Vice-Captain
I wasn't following SA cricket at the time but based on how Elgar was used in the A series prior compared to the other player discussed it was clear that he was viewed as a far more competent 5th/6th bowler by management

The Elgar stats I posted where current, can't imagine they where much worse around the time of his callup.
Ya, I know nothing. I wasn't following LA or A at all at the time. Prior to this thread, I had no idea he was bowling at all at the time. Just remember checking his LA batting stats and saying what I remember. No idea if he was the right call, cos I dont know what everyone else was doing, just saying we shoud look at his stats at the time, not current as has been previously done in thread
 

honestbharani

Whatever it takes!!!
Boucher been charged with gross misconduct

CSA's SJN follow-up: Mark Boucher charged with 'gross misconduct'
Seems fair. He has come off looking the worst by a distance in this whole affair and it does need to be investigated more thoroughly, including giving him a better chance of defending himself as well. That is what they have done. Good to see.
 

cricketsavant

U19 12th Man
Seems fair. He has come off looking the worst by a distance in this whole affair and it does need to be investigated more thoroughly, including giving him a better chance of defending himself as well. That is what they have done. Good to see.
I believe Boucher admitted to calling a certain player "brown s...." and singing songs about it. I remember his apology, which was basically "not my fault, CSA did not teach me how to behave with black people". He shouldn't even be in his job, let alone using a hearing to find legal loopholes and keep his job.

This from Boucher directly, "There was no guidance, no culture discussions, no open fora and no-one appointed by CSA to deal with awkwardness or questions or pressures that were being experienced by the players and, in particular, by the players of colour."

So it seems Boucher is the only adult man in the world who needs to be told not to call coloured people, or anyone for that matter a "brown s..." and in particular not to sing songs about it repeatedly.

SA as a society is still in a sick place.
 

Dendarii

International Debutant
So it seems Boucher is the only adult man in the world who needs to be told not to call coloured people, or anyone for that matter a "brown s..." and in particular not to sing songs about it repeatedly.
He's not the only one as there were other players involved in that. But they seem to have got away without even being named because all of the focus has been on Boucher.
 

Stefan9

International Debutant
He's not the only one as there were other players involved in that. But they seem to have got away without even being named because all of the focus has been on Boucher.
Guess the others not involved in SA cricket anymore so not worth naming them? I do believe the panel should have asked Paul who the others were.
 

Coronis

Cricketer Of The Year
Smith's issue will be the boucher appointment:

So whats the issue?

Smith’s charges relate to matters of his appointment at CSA and procedural flaws in his appointment of Mark Boucher as Proteas head coach. Smith opted to appoint former teammate Boucher instead of interim team director Enoch Nkwe in December 2019, without advertising the post or interviewing candidates. However, Sport24 says the CSA board had given him the power to hire and fire those who reported indirectly to him as long as he consulted with then acting CEO Jacques Faul.


Board gave him the power to do something and he did it, what an awful bloke.
 

Spikey

Request Your Custom Title Now!
“When dealing with the Black Lives Matter issue and the question of “taking the knee”, you allegedly dealt with the white players’ concerns and requested that the team manager [who is black] deal with the black players’ concerns,” the charge sheet contends.
oof
 

StephenZA

Hall of Fame Member
Guess the others not involved in SA cricket anymore so not worth naming them? I do believe the panel should have asked Paul who the others were.
Others where named and this was clearly a team song and described as such. The problem comes from Bouchers non-apology apology, while in an important position within CSA cricket structure. It could be because of legal advice or something like that, but still. Although, the pressure on Boucher is more to do with internal power play and people unhappy with the way he became coach and wanting Nkwe in the role. This is just a way to put him under pressure and force him out, and they must do this now. I promise people hoped SA would lose the Indian series and that could be an excuse to let him go, but their success means Boucher strengthened his position and they can't let that continue. Another good series or two and he could become untouchable.
So whats the issue?

Smith’s charges relate to matters of his appointment at CSA and procedural flaws in his appointment of Mark Boucher as Proteas head coach. Smith opted to appoint former teammate Boucher instead of interim team director Enoch Nkwe in December 2019, without advertising the post or interviewing candidates. However, Sport24 says the CSA board had given him the power to hire and fire those who reported indirectly to him as long as he consulted with then acting CEO Jacques Faul.

Board gave him the power to do something and he did it, what an awful bloke.
When these appointments where being done, I was very sceptical of whether everything was being done totally above board. And also said it very clearly was coming across as jobs for friends in the old boys club. Whether that is totally true or not is besides the point, optically it looked really bad. Its is no surprise it is coming back to bite.
 

StephenZA

Hall of Fame Member
Its tough because, you don't know if it was just stupidly blind or if he was trying not to as a 'white' person tell the players of colour in his team what to do? These things can become difficult to negotiate if not handled delicately and I don't think Boucher is a delicate person.
 

Stefan9

International Debutant
So whats the issue?

Smith’s charges relate to matters of his appointment at CSA and procedural flaws in his appointment of Mark Boucher as Proteas head coach. Smith opted to appoint former teammate Boucher instead of interim team director Enoch Nkwe in December 2019, without advertising the post or interviewing candidates. However, Sport24 says the CSA board had given him the power to hire and fire those who reported indirectly to him as long as he consulted with then acting CEO Jacques Faul.


Board gave him the power to do something and he did it, what an awful bloke.
In SA labour practices its generally accepted to advertise a role and have interviews unless you are hiring from within your organization. Smith not following any of the accepted procedures is a problem for him especially when the one he hired is his buddy.

Its tough because, you don't know if it was just stupidly blind or if he was trying not to as a 'white' person tell the players of colour in his team what to do? These things can become difficult to negotiate if not handled delicately and I don't think Boucher is a delicate person.
Proper way to handle it would have been a team meeting with all the players with boucher & the team manager involved. These optics look terrible especially with SA past.
 

StephenZA

Hall of Fame Member
I also just want to make a general comment. People who are talking about the racisim in SA need to understand what SA was like in the 90's. The white population was told for most of their lives that the black population would be coming for them and was of a lower class. SA apartheid government was a true authoritarian government that would use secret police to do horrendous things. The white population culture was that people of colour where second class and not worthy. You do not get rid of that mentality (even if people know its not really true) over night. If you as a white person spoke up to defend a black person or tried to describe and explain racist language and opinion you would be ostracized from you society very quickly. Even after apartheid ended.

If you think that people reject the 'me to' movement or BLM movement worldwide based on what was relatively free western societies in the '80s and '90s, I can promise you it was much much worse in SA and continues to be much worse in SA. Both the issues and the rejection of the issues.

So everything that is coming out is not a surprise, it is expected. It was known and any person in SA having grown up and lived here throughout their lives will have seen these things time and time again, repeatedly in various forms. And I promise no matter how good a person you are it is very difficult to speak up each time. And many people are not even aware that is what they are doing. This is not an excuse this is just a reality of where SA stands and exists both in the past and today.
 

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