South Africa vs West Indies at Dubai: Matchday thread; Early Game Tue 26/10

[RossTaylorsBox]

That isn't what being cancelled is you dummy

 

[M0rphin3]

Honestly, not a fan of performative wokeness like this, but that's coming from a more further left POV, about the vacuousness (and sometimes counterproductive nature) of this performative stuff. I think it's fair to be suspect of QdK's intentions given even the recent history, but ultimately, if someone's not fine with taking a knee for any other reason I don't see why they should be mandated to.

And more importantly, why tf were players informed like 4 hours beforehand that they are mandated to do this? If they actually thought this was somehow effective or believed that this symbolism had an actual impact, shouldn't they have done this early? Or did it just suddenly dawn on them like few hours before the match?

 

[Burgey]

I am, very aware. I am not against a random man asking others to do the BLM salute. But this is CSA, who runs a quota, undermining white players who are good enough to represent their country, coming back and asking it's players to work against racism. It is bit too rich from them.

Just Imagine if Sri Lanka runs a quota system so the majority of the team are from majority religion, and asking their players to show solidarity against religous discrimination? This is a farce of that nature. My thoughts are with Koch who is being cancelled by "non tolerant" organization asking it's members to be "tolerant"

Wow.

I didn't have "Migara standing up against the White Man's Burden" on my 2021 bingo card, that's for sure.

 

[Burgey]

My thoughts are with Koch

Do you mean the Koch brothers, cos that would fit with your post tbh.

 

[Aritro]

There's a legitimate argument that taking the knee is just performative and does literally nothing to address racism. On the other hand it gets people mad about politics ruining their precious sports so maybe it still has value.

Yep, which was more or less my view although I've softened on it lately. I changed my view after the England football players were racially abused. Given that it came after a year of English club sides taking knee before every match for a good number of months, the gesture and subsequent re-affirmations of the message felt more powerful and less token as a sign of solidarity in its aftermath.

But to me, the whole thing has always smacked of institutions falling over themselves to be seen to do it, out of fear of the mob at least as much as it out of genuine conviction. And I don't think Black Lives Matter morphing from a localised movement campaigning against very specific things into the global banner for antiracism is ideal tbh. The very specific designation of "Black" in the name singularly fails to capture the reality that most victims of racism are not.

Just in the Western world, there's plenty of other other immigrant and religious groups who historically suffer plenty of prejudice who are identifiably not "black". And all together, Western minorities both "black" and non-"black" represent a fairly small proportion of the people who actually suffer racism in the wider world. In fact most of the time they tend to be people who look fairly similar to the mainstream population in their home country, but belong to a different ethnic or religious group. If the "Black" in the name is supposed to be a stand-in for all these people, it's a pretty awkward one.

Frankly, as a member of a minority who doesn't identify as "black" and as someone who has suffered plenty of racism in my life (and tbh I only mention this because in today's overly emotive online environment you can't get away with making this point if people think you're white), I wish the whole BLM-as-global-antiracism-movement thing would **** off and be replaced by something better.

 

[Aritro]

I didn't have "Migara standing up against the White Man's Burden" on my 2021 bingo card, that's for sure.

All he's really done is work a bit harder to understand what motivates someone like De Kock to be anti-BLM than some others, both on and outside of this forum and not you necessarily, whose response to this hasn't stretched far beyond reflexive outrage and intractable moralising.

And no, I don't think white South African cricketers failing to show solidarity with their black teammates is good form, not does it sit particularly well with me despite my reservations about my BLM. And I'm not against quotas - if that indeed is why QdK doesn't want to do it. But it's at least a bit more complicated than people will allow.

 

[Burgey]

Yeah it's a genuine problem for that side moving ahead, that's for sure, regardless of his motives. It seems a particularly insensitive move on his part given that country's history and the make up of its team.

 

[RossTaylorsBox]

But to me, the whole thing has always smacked of institutions falling over themselves to be seen to do it, out of fear for the mob, at least as much as it out of a genuine conviction against racism. And I don't think Black Lives Matter morphing from a localised movement campaigning against very specific things into the global banner for antiracism is ideal tbh. The very specific designation of "Black" in the name singularly fails to capture the reality that most victims of racism are not.

Yeah the whole movement became corporatised, although I still donate to local chapters in America because cops are still cops. But for better or worse it's transformed from a specific issue affecting African Americans to a global anti-discrimination thing. I really don't think the name should be taken literally any more, you can just swap out "Black" for any other minority* of your choosing. I'm going to wager though that most of the people's mewling about this don't actually get involved with anti-racism activism or particularly care about things that don't affect them personally anyway, the most important thing for them is that it's ruining a game of cricket.

*not white people though

 

[RossTaylorsBox]

And yeah if de Kock just straight up said that he doesn't agree with the contradiction between quotas and anti-racism then that's (kinda dumb but) acceptable. But the fact that he doesn't want to reveal his "personal reason" makes me more suspicious.

 

[Migara]

And yeah if de Kock just straight up said that he doesn't agree with the contradiction between quotas and anti-racism then that's (kinda dumb but) acceptable. But the fact that he doesn't want to reveal his "personal reason" makes me more suspicious.

The issue is Koch bound by CSA agreement, cannot go on to say that CSA is a racist joke. At least it should be understandable to a group of people who try to discuss racism.

BLM is a first world problem. What did it do to feed millions of black kids back in Haiti, Somalia or Central Africa? Is BLM against use of Nickel batteries in electronic devices where it is ored with black child labor? The answer is a big fat "No" because these are systematic racism driven by the neo liberal dogma of the West, and the corporate. BLM is a convenient sugar coat to at least to "feel good" about the whole issue. For me BLM is a misplaced campaign, which tries to address a first world problem, which is useless to 99% of black people in the world. That money could be used to feed millions of kids whose lives probably matter more.

 

[Migara]

Wow.

I didn't have "Migara standing up against the White Man's Burden" on my 2021 bingo card, that's for sure.

Have to call spade a spade. I ain't no fan of white man, but this CSA business defies all logic.

 

[honestbharani]

Honestly, I dont see the gesture as even being BLM. It is just a demonstration of support to equality and the hope is people will be interested to research and learn more about why it is required and see how racism permeates various societies sometimes even without their own knowledge. Education on inequality for many who may not know much about this, is a big outcome of this simple gesture, IMO. And as hypocritical as it may be on the part of the organizations and even some of the people, the idea that many folks who have no idea of this may be encouraged to learn about this is a pretty big one.

 

[RossTaylorsBox]

The issue is Koch bound by CSA agreement, cannot go on to say that CSA is a racist joke. At least it should be understandable to a group of people who try to discuss racism.

Oh no, not bound by agreements! If de Kock's actual reason is that CSA is a racist organisation, then he wouldn't give a **** about breaking their contract, particularly being an international player who could maybe go and play in England (?). He still might end up doing that, but agreements aren't an insurmountable obstacle here.

BLM is a first world problem. What did it do to feed millions of black kids back in Haiti, Somalia or Central Africa? Is BLM against use of Nickel batteries in electronic devices where it is ored with black child labor? The answer is a big fat "No" because these are systematic racism driven by the neo liberal dogma of the West, and the corporate. BLM is a convenient sugar coat to at least to "feel good" about the whole issue. For me BLM is a misplaced campaign, which tries to address a first world problem, which is useless to 99% of black people in the world. That money could be used to feed millions of kids whose lives probably matter more.

BLM was formed specifically to address African Americans getting murdered by cops, it was never intended to be a global anti-racism movement, and you are absolutely naive if you believe this. Again, 99% of the people smugging out about how BLM isn't solving global racism don't actually care that much about it themselves.

 

[Daemon]

News just come out from CSA that QdK's personal reasons were that he was simply protesting sledger's ban

 

[Aritro]

Again, 99% of the people smugging out about how BLM isn't solving global racism don't actually care that much about it themselves.

I don't think this is close to being true tbh, even if it accurately describes a some or quite a few people. It's satisfying to indulge in this sort of wholesale othering of people, and obviously we all do it, but it's not particularly helpful for making sense of the nuances of an issue.

 

[Aritro]

I don't think this is close to being true tbh, even if it accurately describes a some or quite a few people. It's satisfying to indulge in this sort of wholesale othering of people, and obviously we all do it, but it's not particularly helpful for making sense of the nuances of an issue.

Wait, I just realised you were parroting his 99% thing. Yeah, my bad.

 

[RossTaylorsBox]

I don't think this is close to being true tbh, even if it accurately describes a some or quite a few people. It's satisfying to indulge in this sort of wholesale othering of people, and obviously we all do it, but it's not particularly helpful for making sense of the nuances of an issue.

I did grassroots social justice work for years and this is my experience. Every time you get **** on for not solving every problem ever it is invariably by people who have no genuine interest in contributing or even providing some fresh ideas about how to improve things. Like **** man, it would be really useful if you could maybe give us some genius advice on how to help more people instead of moaning about how Maori get all the breaks.

 

[Aritro]

Should of tried harder brah

 

[RossTaylorsBox]

News just come out from CSA that QdK's personal reasons were that he was simply protesting sledger's ban

Data protection leak eh...

 

[Migara]

"Racists killed lot of innocent people"
"What should we do?"
"We'll kill racists"

CSA and the social media response is mostly as above.