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South Africa team selection

Tom Flint

International Regular
I know this was a terrible tour as it is for most teams in aus except from India and normally south africa!
However I read during the series that sa were one of the few teams who could still make the wtc final. If that was the case surely things couldn't be that terrible.
 

Marius

International Debutant
The Test squad v WI will be interesting, all the bowlers that went to Aus are safe I think, but Zondo and RvdD could be in trouble I think.

Elgar had a crap series and can't buy a run at the moment but I don't see them dropping him, would also be unlucky for Klaasen to get dropped. Zondo doesn't seem to have the goods at Test level (I could have told you that with an FC ave of 31 but someone on Twitter said h should be aa candidate to replace Elgar as Test skip :laugh:) and RvdD looks like an octopus on roller skates against a red ball for some reason. Also not sure TdB has the steel to make it at Test level, and he played a terrible shot in the first innings of his only Test in Aus.

Markram probably hasn't done enough to be recalled yet but unless there is some more weird stuff Rickelton should be back, and De Zorzi and maybe Hermann could also be in the squad (also helps that De Zorzi is classified as a BA).
 

StephenZA

Hall of Fame Member
What's everybody's love for Hermann at the moment... seems a good player and had a good season so far but still think there are good other young players to try first.
 

Nintendo

Cricketer Of The Year
What's everybody's love for Hermann at the moment... seems a good player and had a good season so far but still think there are good other young players to try first.
Yeah guys like Richards and van tonder have been producing runs for far longer.
 

Marius

International Debutant
What's everybody's love for Hermann at the moment... seems a good player and had a good season so far but still think there are good other young players to try first.
Dude is pissing runs and looks class, let him have a go. You are always saying we should get new guys in so why not Hermann.
 

StephenZA

Hall of Fame Member
Van Tonder has fallen away in recent seasons and Richards should replace Erwee or Elgar, wouldn't have him in the middle order.
van Tonder had one bad season... and has been scoring runs again recently. And I would be giving Breetzke a run before Hermann at this stage.

Dude is pissing runs and looks class, let him have a go. You are always saying we should get new guys in so why not Hermann.
I`m not saying don't give him a go... there are a number of young batsmen that have been scoring runs for a few seasons, that look class and need a go. Doesn't mean we just choose the most recent one.
 

StephenZA

Hall of Fame Member
This is exactly the extremes that people keep accusing me of, which I have never said. I don't want to just pick the 19 and 21 year olds. I want to pick the classy looking 23-27 year olds that deserve a shot. And stop picking the 30+ year old journeyman because of 'experience!'
 

Marius

International Debutant
This is exactly the extremes that people keep accusing me of, which I have never said. I don't want to just pick the 19 and 21 year olds. I want to pick the classy looking 23-27 year olds that deserve a shot. And stop picking the 30+ year old journeyman because of 'experience!'
Yeah, it's a tricky balance, I get what you're saying re: journeymen, but sometimes a 31-year-old with ten seasons of FC cricket behind him will do a job a young oke might not be able to. Think Stephen Cook is a good example, was never an oke people were talking about but forceed his way into Proteas selection through sheer weight of runs and did a job when we needed him to. Would probably still do a better job now as an opener than Erwee or Elgar, to be honest.
 

StephenZA

Hall of Fame Member
Yeah, it's a tricky balance, I get what you're saying re: journeymen, but sometimes a 31-year-old with ten seasons of FC cricket behind him will do a job a young oke might not be able to. Think Stephen Cook is a good example, was never an oke people were talking about but forceed his way into Proteas selection through sheer weight of runs and did a job when we needed him to. Would probably still do a better job now as an opener than Erwee or Elgar, to be honest.
Its about timing... you have a world class settled team that has an injury and you need somebody to come in and do a job... then you pick the Cook, Erwee for a tour or two and don't just throw a youngster into the cauldron. While still looking at an overall succession plan...

What you don't do is build a team of journeyman, to try paper over cracks in a team that is falling apart (because of mismanagement and poor selection) under an excuse of needing 'experience' that those players don't even have.... Then you rather need to think long term and rebuild and look to the best and most talented of your younger players. But still trying to maintain a sensible balance, not just picking 19 or 20 year olds and throwing them to the wolves. But that also comes down to temperament of players etc...

And along with that a different mindset is required and different player management styles is needed and different support; thus coaching staff is different and administration is different and demands are different, for those two contrasting situations.
 

Dendarii

International Debutant
They may have picked Stephen Cook to do a job, but then they got rid of him once it appeared that he was no longer capable of doing that job. He played 11 matches, averaged 33 with 3 hundreds and 2 fifties.

Compare that to the current batsmen before the Australia series:
  • Sarel Erwee - 7 matches, average of 28, 1 hundred, 1 fifty
  • Theunis de Bruyn - 12 matches, average of 19, 1 hundred, 0 fifties
  • Rassie van der Dussen - 17 matches, average of 32, 0 hundreds, 6 fifties
So we didn't stick with Cook, but we stuck with these guys because ...?
 

Marius

International Debutant
They may have picked Stephen Cook to do a job, but then they got rid of him once it appeared that he was no longer capable of doing that job. He played 11 matches, averaged 33 with 3 hundreds and 2 fifties.

Compare that to the current batsmen before the Australia series:
  • Sarel Erwee - 7 matches, average of 28, 1 hundred, 1 fifty
  • Theunis de Bruyn - 12 matches, average of 19, 1 hundred, 0 fifties
  • Rassie van der Dussen - 17 matches, average of 32, 0 hundreds, 6 fifties
So we didn't stick with Cook, but we stuck with these guys because ...?
TB has also gotten faaaaaarrrrrr more rope than most other guys would have got.
 

StephenZA

Hall of Fame Member
They may have picked Stephen Cook to do a job, but then they got rid of him once it appeared that he was no longer capable of doing that job. He played 11 matches, averaged 33 with 3 hundreds and 2 fifties.

Compare that to the current batsmen before the Australia series:
  • Sarel Erwee - 7 matches, average of 28, 1 hundred, 1 fifty
  • Theunis de Bruyn - 12 matches, average of 19, 1 hundred, 0 fifties
  • Rassie van der Dussen - 17 matches, average of 32, 0 hundreds, 6 fifties
So we didn't stick with Cook, but we stuck with these guys because ...?
Fair point. And Cook probably was not treated in an exemplary fashion... but ultimately my comments have very much more to do with the team circumstance than the particular player. If they had picked Erwee or VDD to do a job in a settled team due to experience and form at the time, I would not complain about their selection. My complaint about their selection now is that they serve no purpose for the future and rebuilding the team which is what SA selection policy should be based around.
 

Dendarii

International Debutant
Fair point. And Cook probably was not treated in an exemplary fashion... but ultimately my comments have very much more to do with the team circumstance than the particular player. If they had picked Erwee or VDD to do a job in a settled team due to experience and form at the time, I would not complain about their selection. My complaint about their selection now is that they serve no purpose for the future and rebuilding the team which is what SA selection policy should be based around.
I'm in complete agreement with you. I was just trying to point out that the past we've been far more ruthless with our selections.

I don't think there's anything necessarily wrong with bringing in an older player to do a job, but they need to hit the ground running and start consistently churning out runs from the outset. You can't afford to back them for an extended period hoping that they'll come right because assuming that they do they'll be approaching the of their career and all that time invested in them could have been better spent on nurturing a younger player who will be able to give you more years of international cricket.
 

WpGuy

U19 Debutant
New coaches will apparently be announced next week.
Hope for Pybas as tests and birrel or former northans coach as assistant or that and one of them as white ball coaches, shukri has won nothing ever other 3 have and mbleki also won nothing before.
 

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