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South Africa team selection

SeamUp

International Coach
I would be quite happy with this team. I would play van Tonder at 3 and drop Petersen and de Kock down one.

But I do think that Hamza is getting a raw deal at the moment. He spent two or three seasons scoring good runs has hit a patch of bad form and is being practically discarded by many. Same with Markram in many ways. I understand they have their issues, but still.

I am also going to put it out there that these batsmen started struggling after spending time in the SA squad under Gibson in particular. I don't want to get all conspiracy theory but I do think that both these batsmen have been asked to play in a manner they where not be comfortable with for the sake of the team and have tried to change things that probably should have been done slowly or not changed at all. And now they struggling in their heads and with so little cricket have not had a chance to get back into their space.
Personally I'm not writing off Markram and Hamza. But think in Markram's case he needs to push through a barrier again to prove that his short-comings can be overcome. What that is must be a personal chat between himself, Boucher, Nkwe, McKenzie, Smith.

For Hamza. It is just the type of dismissals that look a major concern for me. I won't right him off because he has shown an appetite for runs from a young age.

Our wickets at test level certainly didn't help our batsmen. But domestic cricket is a different situation. Another aspect we seeing now besides our batsmen struggling against spin is that generally there is a greater challenge to sideways movement and up-and-down at our test venues. They will be better tested for test cricket than at the out grounds.

Bavuma, Vd Dussen, D.Pretorius will have limited overs cricket to play in and they can sink or swim there but they don't deserve test cricket in my opinion.
 

StephenZA

International Coach
For Hamza. It is just the type of dismissals that look a major concern for me. I won't right him off because he has shown an appetite for runs from a young age.
He got out in a number of different ways. An obviously the apparent issue with the short ball at test level was not good. When I watched him bat recently he looked uncertain and that was developed within the SA camp. Same as Markram. And uncertainty can be a form thing, but to have two young promising batsmen look so uncertain tells me somebody got into their head. In the end this is about them getting the right coaching as soon as possible. Maybe they end up not good enough for Tests but I really don't think that is the case for these two.
 

SeamUp

International Coach
He got out in a number of different ways. An obviously the apparent issue with the short ball at test level was not good. When I watched him bat recently he looked uncertain and that was developed within the SA camp. Same as Markram. And uncertainty can be a form thing, but to have two young promising batsmen look so uncertain tells me somebody got into their head. In the end this is about them getting the right coaching as soon as possible. Maybe they end up not good enough for Tests but I really don't think that is the case for these two.
Still 3/4 rounds left before the Test series v Sri Lanka ? Still time I suppose but do you think they deserve selection now ?

Their only viable way back for me is runs domestically and through SA A ?
 
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StephenZA

International Coach
Still 3/4 rounds left before the Test series v Sri Lanka ? Still time I suppose but do you think they deserve selection now ?

There only viable way back for me is runs domestically and through SA A ?
Based on current form no, they don't deserve selection. Based on the class and runs they have shown in the past, then yes.

If you have a solid team and are picking players to fit into a team culture and contribute straight away you give it to the form players to see if they can step up. But that is not what SA has. SA need to rebuild looking at what is happening in 2 to 5 years time. I would hate to lose against SL again, but I would take that over consistently going down the wrong path. I want us to rebuild a strong team look forwards and we are not gonna do that by picking form journeyman.
 

SeamUp

International Coach
Based on current form no, they don't deserve selection. Based on the class and runs they have shown in the past, then yes.

If you have a solid team and are picking players to fit into a team culture and contribute straight away you give it to the form players to see if they can step up. But that is not what SA has. SA need to rebuild looking at what is happening in 2 to 5 years time. I would hate to lose against SL again, but I would take that over consistently going down the wrong path. I want us to rebuild a strong team look forwards and we are not gonna do that by picking form journeyman.
Agreed.

The contentious one's then would be Erwee & Petersen. The reason I'm rewarding form with them is the selections of van Tonder, Mulder and Verreynne.

You would hope that if spots opened up those would be the 2 for Markram and Hamza. Both these players have been to the CSA camps. They clearly not being ignored.

People will probably also argue with me that Wiaan doesn't deserve selection but in his circumstances. 3 franchise 100s before 21. 150 v India A in India and some decent wicket returns. He is a player so vital to the future of our test team I want him in that environment now.
 

Bahseph

State Vice-Captain
I know it is only 2 rounds and I hate selecting on just form but I think a good mix in the situation we are in is some form & definitely looking to the future.

To be honest so little test cricket is played I am over the experienced card and I don't care if we dishing out caps here. I think for us to be competitive we can't select P.Malan, Markram, Hamza, vd Dussen, Bavuma, de Bruyn and Pretorius right now.

I've long been critical of pretty 30/40s from Erwee but he is scoring runs and the only opener doing so that can balance Elgar/Petersen I reckon.

1. Dean Elgar (c)
2. SJ Erwee
3. Keegan Petersen
4. Quinton de Kock
5. Raynard van Tonder
6. Wiaan Mulder
7. Kyle Verreynne (wk)
8. Keshav Maharaj
9. Kagiso Rabada
10. Anrich Nortje
11. Lungi Ngidi

12. Beuran Hendricks
13. George Linde
14. Glenton Stuurman

Reserve batsman can be anyone's guess.
I like this team but what about the quota system mate?? Rabada,Lungi and Kesh are definitely playing. There's still three spots that they need to fill. I haven't seen much of Petersen but he is a Dolphin now so I'll be following closely. How highly do you blokes rate him?
 

Marius

State Captain
I like this team but what about the quota system mate?? Rabada,Lungi and Kesh are definitely playing. There's still three spots that they need to fill. I haven't seen much of Petersen but he is a Dolphin now so I'll be following closely. How highly do you blokes rate him?
There's no hard quotas at Proteas level.

And if they did have a hard quota (of I assume six) they would have to put in two POCs, they already have Rabada, Ngidi, Maharaj, and Petersen.
 

Bahseph

State Vice-Captain
Hmm I guess positive Covid Tests/isolation is another aspect that teams have to face now. My main issue last night is picking Pite van Biljon. Is he really the finisher we want? I understand why they pick Hendricks,I just don't agree with it.

Faf still has something to offer in T20s. And I admire his commitment to the cause. Nice to see Linde in there. I genuinely believe he could be more effective than Hulk for us at 7 in LO games.
 

Nintendo

State Vice-Captain
What's the go with Chris morris atm? Feels like he'd be great for the team atm? Know he's on the older side but he's good for 4 overs a game and a solid finisher.
 

Heboric

International 12th Man
What's the go with Chris morris atm? Feels like he'd be great for the team atm? Know he's on the older side but he's good for 4 overs a game and a solid finisher.
I was wondering myself, he did well for RCB. I guess good enough for Kohli but not Protea selectors
 

Dendarii

State Vice-Captain
I seem to remember reading somewhere that because of the lack of any cricket for so long, they'd decided to start off with the players who had been in the squad earlier in the year, which explains the presences of people like Van Biljon. While I disagree with it because it's resulted in some questionable selections, I don't know if I can say that it's entirely unreasonable to have gone that route. The only problem is that it's probably going to mean that the players who really shouldn't be there are going to end up hanging around for longer than they should because of the supposed need to give them a "fair shot".

So because Morris wasn't part of that most recent squad, that could explain why he wasn't chosen initially. But with Pretorius injured and Phehlukwayo not available you'd think it would be logical to call him up as a replacement (assuming he's fit, which I think he is), although COVID protocols might mean that it's now not all that easy to just bring someone into the squad.
 

SeamUp

International Coach
Will Hendricks, Smuts, Bavuma, vd Dussen, van Biljon get us competing with the best and be the best in the world ? They have reached their ceiling and I have seen many say we are re-building but we aren't really. There is no room for growth in that lot.

Klaasen I am mixed on and I am prepared to give him more time because I think him and Miller are our best 5/6 at the moment in 50-over cricket. Miller to bat 4 in T20s should be the plan.
 

StephenZA

International Coach
Will Hendricks, Smuts, Bavuma, vd Dussen, van Biljon get us competing with the best and be the best in the world ?
No. Those are the players you pick when you have a settled top 6 and need an injury replacement that is in form that can try immediately contribute. They are not players you build a squad around or team around.

Klaasen I am mixed on and I am prepared to give him more time because I think him and Miller are our best 5/6 at the moment in 50-over cricket. Miller to bat 4 in T20s should be the plan.
I prefer Smuts over Klaasens because of the bowling. I would rather see us playing Marco Marais in the T20 format. And Verreynne should be playing the ODI's.

From the current squad, not picking J. Malan and Verreynne is very strange for me.
 

SeamUp

International Coach
No. Those are the players you pick when you have a settled top 6 and need an injury replacement that is in form that can try immediately contribute. They are not players you build a squad around or team around.

I prefer Smuts over Klaasens because of the bowling. I would rather see us playing Marco Marais in the T20 format. And Verreynne should be playing the ODI's.

From the current squad, not picking J. Malan and Verreynne is very strange for me.
Probably being harsh on Smuts but what made the Australia ODI series so nice after a tough summer was the new fresh faces like Janneman, Verreynne, Sipamla, Dupavillon performing. Even Smuts/Klaasen.

I'm fine with Verreynne not playing T20s. I think 50-over and test cricket are his formats but Janneman should absolutely be playing and we should find out where he is with a little run in the team.
 

StephenZA

International Coach
The question then becomes why Verreynne was even picked for the T20 squad? Hopefully plays the ODI's, that is more important.
 

Bahseph

State Vice-Captain
I am not going to be diplomatic about the selection. I can't see what use Reeza Hendricks, Pite van Biljon, Rassie and Temba have in a T20 game for us. They could play a role, but are they match winners? Can they help us win a WC? Nope. Who are the next cabs off the rank though?
 

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