South Africa are the only ones who could challenge Australia

[ohtani's jacket]

South Africa already tried in the summer of 2005-06.

 

[pasag]

If you prefer, I'll say it this way: All the boards except Australia are ruining cricket for failing to invest and nurture their talent the way Australain board has done. To me it's the same thing, and I didn't mean it any other way.

Yes then I would have no issues with that all. It's more the phrasing that irks me than anything.

 

[Ikki]

No, it does not. Scaly does not have a duty to the other contestants on Countdown to be competitive with them - he can blow them out because he is good enough to do so. But the viewers can also turn it off because it may not be fun watching the same bloke destroy people (assuming they didn't have a cap like they do).

In the NFL, the Patriots do not have a responsibility to the other teams to lose games. That's absurd. I am neither implying nor saying such a thing.

I know, but when you say 'responsibility', in some people's English that means you are implying a duty. Certainly in mine. But you've said more than enough against it so I apologise for taking it the wrong way.

 

[bond21]

I dont see how it's Australia's responsibility, they are the best team in the world. Other countries have to raise their game to compete with us.

We are not corrupting the sport. Chelsea FC for example buy players from all over the world from a seemingly endless supply of cash, that in a way is corrupting football.

Putting the best 11 Australians onto the field for a game is completely fair, if other teams can't compete they should improve.

Teams like Bangladesh are detrimental to cricket, they should not be able to play test matches against the top teams in the world

 

[bond21]

Every single team from the top 8 in the world has a shot at beating us. They just don't play to their potential, or we have a team member who stands out and wins the game like warne and mcgrath did.

Sri Lanka just picked the wrong team basically.

Also the 2005 ashes, England had probably their best team ive seen in many years and they outplayed us while some key members for us didnt perform like Gillespie and Kaspa.

Only thing stopping SA from being a real top quality side is a good test match spin bowler.

Also on the Tiger Woods and Federer thing.

Golf is so much different than tennis. In golf, the best player in the world(Woods) will not win every tournament he plays, he may not even make the final cut on some courses(unlikely) because theres more factors, ie one bad shot can set you back numerous strokes.

Tennis is different, because the better player will win 99% of the time. Also Federer is just ridiculously good hes on another level.

Its very hard to explain but even though Tiger Woods is clearly the best golfer in the world, he doesn't win all the time, whereas Federer wins nearly every competitive match he plays, except on clay where Nadal owns him.

 

[shortpitched713]

I can't remember the last time that Australia toured Pakistan. Would say we'd have a fair hope in that scenario, if our bowling attack was fit.

 

[Richard]

Pakistan have about as much chance in Australia as they do in Pakistan for mine.

With a Shoaib-Asif-Shabbir-Gul-Kaneria attack. (*wince at the length of tail*)

 

[silentstriker]

I know, but when you say 'responsibility', in some people's English that means you are implying a duty. Certainly in mine. But you've said more than enough against it so I apologise for taking it the wrong way.

They are responsible for the fact that they moved ahead of everyone else (or for Pasag: others are responsible for not keeping up). Their responsibility is only to themselves and to make sure they win as much as possible.

 

[shortpitched713]

Pakistan have about as much chance in Australia as they do in Pakistan for mine.

With a Shoaib-Asif-Shabbir-Gul-Kaneria attack. (*wince at the length of tail*)

Umm... no. Don't see any point in playing Shabbir if Asif and the other 3 bowlers are fit. A four man attack with Malik or Afridi or someone chipping in should be enough.

In any case our batsmen don't stand a chance against the Aussie attack outside of Pakistan.

 

[jeevan]

The only series Australia came anywhere near losing at home this century was against India in 2003-2004, drew 1-1 with India having come close to winning a second one. In India India vs Australia record is even this century. India won 2-1 in 2001-2002 and lost 2-1 in 2004-2005.

Given that record, it is surprising that folks are talking about SA (who I believe have been swept by the Aussies), Pakistan (have they even won one match vs Australia recently) and England (only other team besides India to win against the Aussies?, in England).

The magic in 2003-2004 was (and possibility for 2007-2008):
- no Warne or McGrath , check for 2007-2008
- strong batting line up, check on paper
same middle order of Dravid,Tendulkar,Ganguly,Laxman now bolstered by Dhoni
opening pair Wasim-Karthik tested in SA, Eng & potentially as good as Sehwag-Chopra
- Kumble was the bowling heavy weight, check on paper
- One pacer (Agarkar) did OK , atleast in the win. This for India is the key.
The possibility is present. On paper Zaheer today is atleast as good as Agarkar then. Sreesanth can be the surprise package (certainly was in SA).

If the openers can see off Mitch Johnson (who seems to have India's number) and Sreesanth clicks - much maligned India in 2007-2008 is the team for mission impossile.
Note that even in the Ind-Aus ODIs recently, Sreesanth was expensive and wayward.
But he took wickets more than almost anyone else in either side (8 wickets in 3 matches IIRC)

 

[Richard]

Umm... no. Don't see any point in playing Shabbir if Asif and the other 3 bowlers are fit. A four man attack with Malik or Afridi or someone chipping in should be enough.

Why not? Asif and Shabbir > all other options (YES!!!! Including Gul!!!!) on the assumption that you never know what Shoaib is going to turn-up.

I can see a case, ever more so, for leaving-out Kaneria, as even on turning surfaces he's struggled for incisiveness of late. All-pace could be the way to go.

In any case our batsmen don't stand a chance against the Aussie attack outside of Pakistan.

True that. But Pakistan's bowling would likely be as effective if not more so in Australia as in Pakistan.

 

[Richard]

The only series Australia came anywhere near losing at home this century was against India in 2003-2004, drew 1-1 with India having come close to winning a second one.

Not quite correct - New Zealand almost won in 2001\02, but that was only because rain washed-out the first 2 Tests pretty effectively, both of which Australia were in a leading, if not commanding, position in.

 

[shortpitched713]

Why not? Asif and Shabbir > all other options (YES!!!! Including Gul!!!!) on the assumption that you never know what Shoaib is going to turn-up.

I can see a case, ever more so, for leaving-out Kaneria, as even on turning surfaces he's struggled for incisiveness of late. All-pace could be the way to go.

True that. But Pakistan's bowling would likely be as effective if not more so in Australia as in Pakistan.

Nowadays, the Shoaib that is fit turns out well for us, so in no way would I say that Shabbir is better, though I'll grudgingly give you him over Gul. Still Asif and Shabbir are very similarish bowlers, and its hard to say what effect the reworking of Shabbir's action would have to his bowling.

A four man pace attack does seem tempting, but the fitness of our pacers (especially Shoaib) is such that they need the long breaks that a spinner like Kaneria can afford at one end. And Kaneria, when bowling effectively, is able to keep it very tight during these overs so I'd back him in a four man attack over going with a four seamer attack.

And as for the last point, the only thing I can say is that there's a reason we prepare such flat pitches in Pakistan.

 

[Richard]

Nowadays, the Shoaib that is fit turns out well for us, so in no way would I say that Shabbir is better, though I'll grudgingly give you him over Gul. Still Asif and Shabbir are very similarish bowlers, and its hard to say what effect the reworking of Shabbir's action would have to his bowling.

Similarish, and if I can have someone similar to Mohammad Asif, frankly, I'll jump at the chance. I do worry about whether Shabbir will ever be the same, mind - this is all assuming he came back and returned to his heyday form. But on a green seamer I can see those two destroying anyone - especially if they control the no-balls. And with Shoaib, too, it's a thrilling prospect.

A four man pace attack does seem tempting, but the fitness of our pacers (especially Shoaib) is such that they need the long breaks that a spinner like Kaneria can afford at one end. And Kaneria, when bowling effectively, is able to keep it very tight during these overs so I'd back him in a four man attack over going with a four seamer attack.

Very true. All three of Asif, Shabbir and Gul (the latter two especially) seem to me to be good stock-bowlers, even if they have suffered some injuries. Few of these, though, seem to be wear-and-tear, and more a case of simply appalling fortune.

And as for the last point, the only thing I can say is that there's a reason we prepare such flat pitches in Pakistan.

Yep, and in a way it's a shame, because with more green pitches we'd probably see batsmen being tested in Pakistan in a way which surmounts any other test. Would absolutely love to see Australia on a green seamer against Asif, Shabbir, a fit and committed Shoaib (maybe a fantasy, but you never know) and Gul. Mind, catching would probably still let down.

 

[jeevan]

Not quite correct - New Zealand almost won in 2001\02, but that was only because rain washed-out the first 2 Tests pretty effectively, both of which Australia were in a leading, if not commanding, position in.

I stand somewhat corrected on that point. No one is talking about NZ either though (and with the most recent NZ test result, just as well).

Main point stands, though. That India is perhaps a better test team than Pak & SA for beating Aus in Aus. On paper the latter have more glamorous bowling names, but it is possible that Agarkar has done more in Australia than Akhtar,Ntini and Kumble than Muralitharan etc

 

[shortpitched713]

Very true. All three of Asif, Shabbir and Gul (the latter two especially) seem to me to be good stock-bowlers, even if they have suffered some injuries. Few of these, though, seem to be wear-and-tear, and more a case of simply appalling fortune.

Yep, and in a way it's a shame, because with more green pitches we'd probably see batsmen being tested in Pakistan in a way which surmounts any other test. Would absolutely love to see Australia on a green seamer against Asif, Shabbir, a fit and committed Shoaib (maybe a fantasy, but you never know) and Gul. Mind, catching would probably still let down.

I just don't think the overall fitness of our bowlers is particularly good. Asif seems to have hit some terrible fortune with regards to his elbow, but the fact that he and Gul are probably our seamers most capable of bowling longer spells does not inspire particular confidence in me of our ability to field a four seam attack.

There's always the possibility of a seaming pitch in Karachi. Hm... I wonder when Australia's next tour of Pakistan is?

 

[Richard]

I stand somewhat corrected on that point. No one is talking about NZ either though (and with the most recent NZ test result, just as well).

Main point stands, though. That India is perhaps a better test team than Pak & SA for beating Aus in Aus. On paper the latter have more glamorous bowling names, but it is possible that Agarkar has done more in Australia than Akhtar,Ntini and Kumble than Muralitharan etc

Not possible, it's certain - in terms of contributing to winning a Test-match - and a live Test-match at that - in Australia, Agarkar is ahead of anyone since 1996\97, perhaps with the exception of Dean Headley - and that was an astonishing spell to turn a game which Australia had dominated most of into an England win, as opposed to turning what looked a likely well-earned draw into a rather unexpected win.

However, whether this is anything more than a coincidence is doubtful, to me. Apart from anything, with better catching support and less misfortune with the weather, South Africa's seamers could quite easily have forced three victories in Australia 2 summers ago.

 

[jeevan]

Not possible, it's certain - in terms of contributing to winning a Test-match - and a live Test-match at that - in Australia, Agarkar is ahead of anyone since 1996\97, perhaps with the exception of Dean Headley - and that was an astonishing spell to turn a game which Australia had dominated most of into an England win, as opposed to turning what looked a likely well-earned draw into a rather unexpected win.

However, whether this is anything more than a coincidence is doubtful, to me. Apart from anything, with better catching support and less misfortune with the weather, South Africa's seamers could quite easily have forced three victories in Australia 2 summers ago.

That one innings clearly. Even excepting that Agarkar has had a string of 3-fors in several innings. If Sreesanth (or RP) can do that, while Zaheer and Kumble are doing their usual thing, things could get interesting. (with the on-paper batting being what it is).

 

[pup11]

I think India looks like the only team who can challenge Australia atm, India's record in test matches in recent times has been pretty good and though their bowling isn't anything to lose sleep over the likes of Zaheer and Kumble can trouble any batting line-up and if RP and Sree Santh can sort their bowling out and support those two then the Indian bowling looks quite decent and then they have famed batting line-up with all the experience and skill, and for their bowling to be effective this famed Indian batting line-up would have to score heavily.
The other test team don't have the enough strength in their batting ranks to test the new look Aussie attack IMO.

 

[Perm]

Yes, I can honestly say I would love nothing more than to win every single Test that we played.

That sir, is the reason I respect Australia so much.