Seriously, what now for WI?

[Sliferxxxx]

The issue about pitches is a very relevant one for me, it's no wonder the bowlers are doing so well but the batters aren't, not saying any of the batters are world beaters or anything, but how can you expect them to develop the ability to dig in and construct an innings when they are playing on minefields? Also, what is the West Indies' policy on franchise cricket vs FC cricket, I heard that they're no longer forcing players to play FC cricket, but we're not seeing any of their franchise stars flock back to Test cricket

Umm WI batting has sucked worldwide. The bowling delivered in Australia and Pakistan the batting, not remotely close.

 

[the big bambino]

True though the pitches in Australia are still pro bowler. The overall point is fair about the standard of pitch in the WI negating the development of batsmen who can bat time.

 

[Smudge]

Yessssss. Your best ever post

I wonder if TJB drives a VW Golf.

 

[TheJediBrah]

I wonder if TJB drives a VW Golf.

I often do actually, wife's car though

 

[Coronis]

I think there‘s issues with most of the individual islands in the Caribbean, the BCA, the JCA, the GCB, etc, not just the WICB. The ability to pay players well enough is an issue that blights a lot of countries not just WI, but yes, it certainly needs addressing somehow.

Well thats a problem. They need to properly unite as a region to compete as a region internationally. Seems like its extremely difficult to govern multiple nations together, each with their own board and likely own agenda. I’m not sure if there will ever be a solution and it (sadly) won’t surprise me if Windies continue to fade. Another generational talent such as Lara would be a big help but I just don’t think Seales or Shamar are that guy.

 

[Immenso]

There 4 institutions with influence, that can make differing levels of impact, IMO. From what I can gather.

The island boards, who sound quite incompetent, and with questionable motives.

The WICB. It sounds to me, from my very distant perspectives of podcasts and this board. That the cricketing people involved at the WICB are on the right track. Academy and 'A' tours etc. The governance level not so much? I don't know which out of the WICB or the individual boards are responsible for the pitches.

The ICC. I wouldn't complain if the ICC more evenly distributed money. But this isn't the cause. WI are getting same/similar as Sri Lanka, NZ etc.
Another thing ICC could do, is use their shiny academy in Dubai to hold (and fund) 'A' series quad tournaments and U19 red ball quads, so that the other test nations can keep up with the Rich3 who are permanently touring each other at these two junior levels.

Lastly. The ECB. Their over-reaction to kolpaks and evil Giles Clarke has only been slightly corrected. There is no reason they shouldn't let any British passport holder play county cricket and not count as overseas players.

 

[Shady Slim]

putting aside the issues of governance which i’m not exactly qualified to opine on and on which i am more than happy to defer to guys like beamer on i’m gonna just say this:
this is not the lowest WI cricket’s been at all. last time they came to australia they tied the series, and even this series they were competitive in all three tests until the stretch over four innings showed that their batsmen aren’t up to it. the tour when they came here in 2015 or so and carlos brathwaite was a feature bowler, and australia were getting 500 with ease was objectively a much lower ebb for caribbean cricket and with a much dimmer future. bowling’s there, the bowlers are there and i think this attack has a legitimate claim (debatable, legitimate) to say they’re the second best bowling attack in the world behind australia in WANGS conditions! if they can sort the batting out this is a good team in the wings and we just shouldn’t let an aberrant batting performance let us lose that sight imho

 

[_Ed_]

putting aside the issues of governance which i’m not exactly qualified to opine on and on which i am more than happy to defer to guys like beamer on i’m gonna just say this:
this is not the lowest WI cricket’s been at all. last time they came to australia they tied the series, and even this series they were competitive in all three tests until the stretch over four innings showed that their batsmen aren’t up to it. the tour when they came here in 2015 or so and carlos brathwaite was a feature bowler, and australia were getting 500 with ease was objectively a much lower ebb for caribbean cricket and with a much dimmer future. bowling’s there, the bowlers are there and i think this attack has a legitimate claim (debatable, legitimate) to say they’re the second best bowling attack in the world behind australia in WANGS conditions! if they can sort the batting out this is a good team in the wings and we just shouldn’t let an aberrant batting performance let us lose that sight imho

I mostly agree with this, although they could (and IMO probably should) lose Shamar Joseph from that bowling attack for the foreseeable future.

 

[Coronis]

putting aside the issues of governance which i’m not exactly qualified to opine on and on which i am more than happy to defer to guys like beamer on i’m gonna just say this:
this is not the lowest WI cricket’s been at all. last time they came to australia they tied the series, and even this series they were competitive in all three tests until the stretch over four innings showed that their batsmen aren’t up to it. the tour when they came here in 2015 or so and carlos brathwaite was a feature bowler, and australia were getting 500 with ease was objectively a much lower ebb for caribbean cricket and with a much dimmer future. bowling’s there, the bowlers are there and i think this attack has a legitimate claim (debatable, legitimate) to say they’re the second best bowling attack in the world behind australia in WANGS conditions! if they can sort the batting out this is a good team in the wings and we just shouldn’t let an aberrant batting performance let us lose that sight imho

What’s the G for?

 

[Woodster]

putting aside the issues of governance which i’m not exactly qualified to opine on and on which i am more than happy to defer to guys like beamer on i’m gonna just say this:
this is not the lowest WI cricket’s been at all. last time they came to australia they tied the series, and even this series they were competitive in all three tests until the stretch over four innings showed that their batsmen aren’t up to it. the tour when they came here in 2015 or so and carlos brathwaite was a feature bowler, and australia were getting 500 with ease was objectively a much lower ebb for caribbean cricket and with a much dimmer future. bowling’s there, the bowlers are there and i think this attack has a legitimate claim (debatable, legitimate) to say they’re the second best bowling attack in the world behind australia in WANGS conditions! if they can sort the batting out this is a good team in the wings and we just shouldn’t let an aberrant batting performance let us lose that sight imho

Yes I think the pitches they prepared for Australia this time round played to WI’s strengths with assistance for a strong bowling attack against a vulnerable Aussie batting line-up. It didn’t give their batsmen any chance but these pitches did ensure they were competitive for periods of each Test without really looking like winning due to the obvious batting frailties when the pressure was on. Not sure this batting line-up would cash in on flat ones either mind.

Without diminishing their drawn series in Australia (only two Tests mind) it was down to one man’s brilliance in the fourth innings. They were smashed by 10-wickets in the first Test and then set Australia just over 200 to win the second Test which you’d expect 9 times out of 10 they’d chase down. However Shamar ran through them and the rest is history but certainly a smash and grab effort.

 

[TheJediBrah]

What’s the G for?

Great Britain I assume

 

[mackembhoy]

I’m sure that’ll help lift the gloom a little, but I guess I’m talking mainly Test cricket.

But you've just glossed over one of the main reasons why though.

The best batting talent are chasing T20 coin instead of trying to play red ball.

Plus some of the best athletes from the various islands aren't playing cricket at all with the money on offer to play the North Amercian sports instead

 

[amit75]

Does cricket need a strong West Indies?

ICC doesn't think so going by their actions

 

[Sliferxxxx]

But you've just glossed over one of the main reasons why though.

The best batting talent are chasing T20 coin instead of trying to play red ball.

Plus some of the best athletes from the various islands aren't playing cricket at all with the money on offer to play the North Amercian sports instead

This is agree with. I honestly think guys like Hetmyer, Pooran etc given the training and a little bit of discipline, could've done wonders in test. At the very least, average north of 35. But no, they're bz playing limited overs stuff .

 

[Woodster]

But you've just glossed over one of the main reasons why though.

The best batting talent are chasing T20 coin instead of trying to play red ball.

Plus some of the best athletes from the various islands aren't playing cricket at all with the money on offer to play the North Amercian sports instead

Yes it was mentioned earlier of the issues WI face with the number of franchise competitions popping up and the WICB haven’t the financial resources to pay those players to focus on WI cricket.

 

[Stefan9]

What is their A system like? That should be a focus

Their A team got comfortably beaten by SA A before the Aus series. Some of their test players were also involved.

 

[Woodster]

I think WI have always produced talented young players with bags of potential, so the academy and ‘A’ team has some very capable players based on potential but it’s converting that into Teat capable players. Also keeping their interest in the longer form.

 

[Ali TT]

Yes I think the pitches they prepared for Australia this time round played to WI’s strengths with assistance for a strong bowling attack against a vulnerable Aussie batting line-up. It didn’t give their batsmen any chance but these pitches did ensure they were competitive for periods of each Test without really looking like winning due to the obvious batting frailties when the pressure was on. Not sure this batting line-up would cash in on flat ones either mind.

Without diminishing their drawn series in Australia (only two Tests mind) it was down to one man’s brilliance in the fourth innings. They were smashed by 10-wickets in the first Test and then set Australia just over 200 to win the second Test which you’d expect 9 times out of 10 they’d chase down. However Shamar ran through them and the rest is history but certainly a smash and grab effort.

I think the victory in Australia, like two recent tests wins in England show that they still have naturally talented guys who can pull rabbits out of hats but just not on any consistent basis. Those two wins in England were based upon million dollar efforts by Shai Hope and Jermaine Blackwood, for example. In the other tests in those series they lost by an innings, 9 wickets, 270 runs and 113 runs.