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Semi Final 1 - France vs Wales

Somerset

Cricketer Of The Year
Pretty sure similar tackles in this World Cup have only been yellow carded at most, actually.
I see your point though I can't recall specific ones off the top of my head to compare the spear tackle tonight with. Even if that were the case, I'd argue that those referees weren't strict enough. For those interested this was the quote from the IRB directive to referees in 2009 that applies today: "The IRB Council approved a Laws Designated Members Ruling which essentially made it clear that tackles involving a player being lifted off the ground and tipped horizontally and were then either forced or dropped to the ground are illegal and constitute dangerous play...[this includes when] the lifted player is dropped to the ground from a height with no regard to the player’s safety. A red card should be issued for this type of tackle."
 

flibbertyjibber

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
The thing is where is the common sense? This wasn't a dangerous tackle, it was just a big hit that went wrong. There is an obvious difference between this tackle which accidently ended as it did and the tackle on Bod a few years back which was done deliberately. If people can't see that then it is a sad day.
 

Somerset

Cricketer Of The Year
The thing is where is the common sense? This wasn't a dangerous tackle, it was just a big hit that went wrong. There is an obvious difference between this tackle which accidently ended as it did and the tackle on Bod a few years back which was done deliberately. If people can't see that then it is a sad day.
Well, I'd argue that it was a dangerous tackle since Clerc was essentially stranded and was lucky that his landing was on the back of his neck and not the top of his head. In full speed it looks bad though. I guess most spear tackles are actually "big hits that go wrong", but I don't think that should excuse the player who put himself in position to spear another player. I don't want to get too caught up in the O'Driscoll/Umaga incident since that was well off the ball and a different scenario altogether - and theres still a lot of debate about exactly what happened.

The point I'm really making is that after all the complaints against referees, particular South Africans against Lawrence, Samoans against Owens, etc., the rule that I quoted showed that Rolland did exactly what he should've done. So its somewhat ironic that I've read on forums a lot of criticism that he did elect to do just that. I can perhaps buy an argument that perhaps the rules are too strict and like you've suggested there does need to be something about common sense, but anyone who lifts a player and drops him on his head/neck, whether that be deliberate or innocently, needs to be strongly penalised IMO.
 

Johnners

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
The thing is where is the common sense? This wasn't a dangerous tackle, it was just a big hit that went wrong. There is an obvious difference between this tackle which accidently ended as it did and the tackle on Bod a few years back which was done deliberately. If people can't see that then it is a sad day.
Just because the tackle wasn't malicious as such, it doesn't mean it wasn't dangerous. The bloke landed on his head, I'm not sure how that can be construed as anything other than dangerous, accidental or not.
 

Somerset

Cricketer Of The Year
"Rolland is a fool who erroneously sent off Sam Warburton in the 2011 World Cup Final."

Who was the fool who erroneously thought Wales made it to the World Cup Final? :ph34r:
 

Burgey

Request Your Custom Title Now!
Did the Frog bloke get up and play on? Unless he's stretchered, you don't send players off in a WC quarter, semi or final in any sport. At worst you sin bin someone.

Yet another ref ensuring he's the talking point, not the players. It's the rugby malaise. They're all Bill bloody Harrigans.
 

grecian

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
I know nowt about rugger, but I know about Welsh people, they're ****s, it was a good decision, IMHO allez lez frogs.
 

HeathDavisSpeed

Hall of Fame Member
Have a read of the full report if you like: http://www.orrs.ca/forms/090610 Dangerous Tackle.pdf
Look, I was pretty drunk last night, but there have been probably half a dozen similar tackles in this world cup; and none of which attracted a red card. I'm sure suffered a similar red card indignity in the 1987 semi final too, so this will only add to the chip on their shoulder. When so much is riding on one game, I think a great deal more common sense should be shown. I doubt whether anyone would be complaining right now if he'd been yellowed.
 

Hurricane

Hall of Fame Member
How was the ref suppossed to see that he had been dropped and not forced to he ground, if the rules allowed for that distinction, it all happened very quickly.
 

Smudge

Hall of Fame Member
How was the ref suppossed to see that he had been dropped and not forced to he ground, if the rules allowed for that distinction, it all happened very quickly.
And regardless, dropping can be as dangerous as driving, simply because there is no control by the tackler. I have no time for such tackles and if one of our players gets sent off for such a tackle tonight (if anyone, it'll be Nonu), I'll have no qualms if the red comes out.
 

JBH001

International Regular
Yeah, I agree. It was a tough decision, given the context, but I have no issue with the red card.
 

Tricia McMillan

U19 Captain
The IRB is trying to crack down on spear tackles in the sport. The rules state that if you lift a player up off the ground you are responsible for ensuring he comes back down safely, the standard with spear tackles being applied in regards to rotating the player past horizontal. Intention or malice (or lack thereof), according to the IRB's official stance, are neither mitigating nor aggravating circumstances.

That said, I believe that if you lift a player off the ground and rotate him past the horizontal point, you're going to get a card, and it only becomes a question of red or yellow. If you realize your mistake and let him go, then you can get away with a yellow. If you drive him into the ground, upper body first, or drop him from a dangerous height, you should get a red. That's why last night's ruling is open for interpretation, because he did not drive him into the ground. However, he was up pretty high in the air, and while I do not believe it was malicious (I don't believe anyone thought it was), it was obvious that he was intentionally rotating the player, though too far because he mistimed it.

I believe, had he not let him go, and fallen to the ground with him, he would have gotten a yellow instead, but it was a pretty reckless tackle from the beginning. He set himself up for a bit of a gray area between yellow and red. The sending off was arguably harsh, however, if he had gotten only a yellow card instead, everyone would probably be talking about how he was lucky to get away with not getting sent off.
 

nick-o

U19 Cricketer
I'm really not too fussed about the red card tbh -- at first it looked like it would kill the match, but in fact it didn't and Wales should have won regardless. Four missed kicks, each of which would have been enough to secure the win. The fact is, 14 Welsh v 15 French and the Welsh were still clearly the better team, and yet we still didn't win. That's painful.
 

Tricia McMillan

U19 Captain
I'm really not too fussed about the red card tbh -- at first it looked like it would kill the match, but in fact it didn't and Wales should have won regardless. Four missed kicks, each of which would have been enough to secure the win. The fact is, 14 Welsh v 15 French and the Welsh were still clearly the better team, and yet we still didn't win. That's painful.
If anything, the red card is what made the match the nailbiter that it was.

I am of the opinion that Wales would have won rather comfortably if not for being forced to play tighter and more conservatively with 14 men.
 

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