Seamers with 50+ wickets @ sub-25 average

[Flametree]

With Hasan Ali's recent effort against Zimbabwe, it struck me that Pakistan have had quite a few bowlers reach the above landmark.

Considering only players who played the majority of their cricket post-WW2, to compare with Pakistan's time in test cricket:

Australia (10) - Clark, Cummins, Davidson, Harris, Johnston, Lillee, Lindwall, McGrath, Miller, Reid,
England (5) - Bedser, Higgs, Statham, Trueman, Tyson
India (1) - Bumrah
New Zealand (2) - Bond, Hadlee
Pakistan (9) - Abbas, Asif, Fazal, Hasan Ali, Imran, Khan Mohammad, Shabbir, Waqar, Wasim
South Africa (8) - Adcock, de Villiers, Donald, Philander, Pollock P, Pollock S, Rabada, Steyn
West Indies (7) - Ambrose, Bishop, Croft, Garner, Holding, Marshall, Walsh

Pakistan have three players who only just sneak onto the list, and if you upped the limit to 100 wickets, you'd lose four Pakistanis - Abbas, Hasan, Khan Mohammad, and Shabbir - while also excluding Clark, Higgs, Tyson, Bumrah, Bond, and de Villiers.

South Africa look pretty considering some players who many would consider a pretty good bet to achieve these stats (Procter, Rice, le Roux, van der Bijl) never got the chance.

 

[trundler]

India (1) lmao

 

[SillyCowCorner1]

At one point I thought that Jason Holder was going to get there...he’s been trending that way for a bit.

 

[TheJediBrah]

England only having 5 is probably the biggest surprise

 

[Fuller Pilch]

Kyle Jamieson will join that group this year.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Hazlewood is surprisingly close. A good series and he could hit the mark.

Kyle Jamieson will join that group this year.

He'll get there, but I don't think he'll stay there unless his career is curtailed. If he can be a sub-25 bowler though he'll be potentially ATG all-rounder material.

 

[ataraxia]

Kyle Jamieson will join that group this year.

hmm, why did I expect a post from you along those lines...

 

[Gob]

hmm, why did I expect a post from you along those lines...

I don't see anything wrong with it

 

[Flametree]

I was wondering how many seamers would have hit the 50 wicket threshold with a sub 25 average, and then had their average climb over that mark as their careers went on, but couldn't be bothered trying to figure out how to find them...

Botham would be one, Brett Lee another I think?

 

[TheJediBrah]

I was wondering how many seamers would have hit the 50 wicket threshold with a sub 25 average, and then had their average climb over that mark as their careers went on, but couldn't be bothered trying to figure out how to find them...

Botham would be one, Brett Lee another I think?

After 12 tests Lee averaged 22.96 with 51 wkts, good shout. That was after a couple of bad ashes tests iirc and he was averaging below 18 with 40-odd wickets prior to that

 

[Dendarii]

I was wondering how many seamers would have hit the 50 wicket threshold with a sub 25 average, and then had their average climb over that mark as their careers went on, but couldn't be bothered trying to figure out how to find them...

I guess a starting point might be the fastest to 50 wickets as most (maybe even all) on that list should have got their 50 wickets at under 25 given how quickly they picked them up. Although you would still need to go through the individual bowlers to see how their careers progressed, so that could be a bit of a slog.

https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/content/records/283528.html

 

[Gob]

I was wondering how many seamers would have hit the 50 wicket threshold with a sub 25 average, and then had their average climb over that mark as their careers went on, but couldn't be bothered trying to figure out how to find them...

Botham would be one, Brett Lee another I think?

Botham stayed below 25 for a hell of a lot longer than Lee. I'm pretty sure at one point Botham had more wickets than Holding with an average of around 23.

 

[bagapath]

Botham stayed below 25 for a hell of a lot longer than Lee. I'm pretty sure at one point Botham had more wickets than Holding with an average of around 23.

Botham's last test with a sub 25 bowling average

64

113

15109

7072

283

8/34

13/106

24.98

2.80

53.3

21

4

v New Zealand

20 Jan 1984

beefy maintained a 5 wk/match ratio for 42 tests. one of the greatest bowlers for a considerable in my opinion.
no wonder the world record came his way, but, of course, by that time he had started sliding down.

 

[AndrewB]

Unsurprisingly, there are plenty of bowlers who dropped off the list. This gives (barring mistakes) their best average at 50+ wickets:
*Rodney Hogg: 51 @ 15.37
*Ian Botham: 64 @ 16.55
*Jason Gillespie: 68 @ 20.22
*Wes Hall: 60 @ 20.47
Max Walker: 54 @ 20.52
*Andy Roberts: 96 @ 21.27
*Heath Streak: 61 @ 21.49
Terry Alderman: 50 @ 21.66
Brett Lee: 50 @ 21.96
Mike Hendrick: 72 @ 22.62
*Josh Hazlewood: 60 @ 22.65
Geoff Lawson: 51 @ 22.92
Charlie Griffith: 50 @ 23.08
*Steve Harmison: 63 @ 23.25
Gary Gilmour: 52 @ 23.27
*Shoaib Akhtar: 118 @ 23.42
*Bob Willis: 164 @ 23.45
Geoff Arnold: 72 @ 23.50
Charminda Vaas: 52 @ 23.54
John Lever: 51 @ 23.61
Jack Gregory: 57 @ 23.72
Damien Fleming: 70 @ 23.77
Bill Voce: 83 @ 23.90
Bruce Taylor: 89 @ 24.07
*Jeff Thomson: 88 @ 24.44
Dominic Cork: 51 @ 24.45
Winston Benjamin: 51 @ 24.53
Angus Fraser: 69 @ 24.72
Len Pascoe: 60 @ 24.83

Starred bowlers would at some point have qualified for 100+ wickets at <25. Botham, Willis and Gillespie all had 200+ wickets at <25 (Willis had 300).

 

[TheJediBrah]

A lot of Australians in that list. Nearly a third of them.

 

[Flametree]

Unsurprisingly, there are plenty of bowlers who dropped off the list. This gives (barring mistakes) their best average at 50+ wickets:
*Rodney Hogg: 51 @ 15.37
*Ian Botham: 64 @ 16.55
*Jason Gillespie: 68 @ 20.22
*Wes Hall: 60 @ 20.47
Max Walker: 54 @ 20.52
*Andy Roberts: 96 @ 21.27
*Heath Streak: 61 @ 21.49
Terry Alderman: 50 @ 21.66
Brett Lee: 50 @ 21.96
Mike Hendrick: 72 @ 22.62
*Josh Hazlewood: 60 @ 22.65
Geoff Lawson: 51 @ 22.92
Charlie Griffith: 50 @ 23.08
*Steve Harmison: 63 @ 23.25
Gary Gilmour: 52 @ 23.27
*Shoaib Akhtar: 118 @ 23.42
*Bob Willis: 164 @ 23.45
Geoff Arnold: 72 @ 23.50
Charminda Vaas: 52 @ 23.54
John Lever: 51 @ 23.61
Jack Gregory: 57 @ 23.72
Damien Fleming: 70 @ 23.77
Bill Voce: 83 @ 23.90
Bruce Taylor: 89 @ 24.07
*Jeff Thomson: 88 @ 24.44
Dominic Cork: 51 @ 24.45
Winston Benjamin: 51 @ 24.53
Angus Fraser: 69 @ 24.72
Len Pascoe: 60 @ 24.83

Starred bowlers would at some point have qualified for 100+ wickets at <25. Botham, Willis and Gillespie all had 200+ wickets at <25 (Willis had 300).

Nice list. Hogg should have been an obvious name when I posed the question given his first series. Gregory and Voce would have been pre-WW2 so not in range. Some interesting names : I had forgotten the likes of Streak and Lawson has such good starts to their career.

 

[Gob]

Botham's last test with a sub 25 bowling average

64

113

15109

7072

283

8/34

13/106

24.98

2.80

53.3

21

4

v New Zealand

20 Jan 1984

beefy maintained a 5 wk/match ratio for 42 tests. one of the greatest bowlers for a considerable in my opinion.
no wonder the world record came his way, but, of course, by that time he had started sliding down.

Imagine had Botham retired around 85

I don't have the exact numbers and couldn't be bothered to look up but he should have had a record like

• Batting average of 36-37 with ten hundreds
• Close to 250 wickets around 23 with close to 20 five wicket hauls
• 81 Ashes (arguably the greatest test innings)
• Brilliant series in India

Worthy resume for the GOAT all rounder

 

[AndrewB]

Those figures would be right (more or less) if he retired after the 1982 home series. After the 85 Ashes he was on close to 350 wickets, but at 26.

 

[Gob]

Those figures would be right (more or less) if he retired after the 1982 home series. After the 85 Ashes he was on close to 350 wickets, but at 26.

He only ended up with 383 in the end despite playing till what? 92?

Fall must have been steep

 

[TheJediBrah]

Last 5 years of his career his wickets cast 54 runs each. And averaged 20 with the bat.

If he had retired before then he'd be in everyone's ATG sides