Seam and conventional swing bowlers

[GoodAreasShane]

Pollock is underrated as a bowler, somewhat of a by product of his peak being post Donald but pre Steyn.

 

[Bolo]

I'm clearly missing some memory of early Pollock- the comment about him being a good outswing bowler at the start of his career was a surprise.

I remember him occasionally getting a nibble, but I can't remember a ball where I got the impression he did it on purpose. Even his seam was a product of chance not control.

I saw Mcgrath bowl consistent and controlled swing that seemed threatening, even if not his most productive. Maybe my impression is skewed by an unusual sample, but he looked quality. His regular skills plus a hint of away is a good combo. I'm not sure, but I think he may have been trying to hoop it at the start of his career, which would explain failure.

 

[Starfighter]

I'm clearly missing some memory of early Pollock- the comment about him being a good outswing bowler at the start of his career was a surprise.

I remember him occasionally getting a nibble, but I can't remember a ball where I got the impression he did it on purpose. Even his seam was a product of chance not control.

I saw Mcgrath bowl consistent and controlled swing that seemed threatening, even if not his most productive. Maybe my impression is skewed by an unusual sample, but he looked quality. His regular skills plus a hint of away is a good combo. I'm not sure, but I think he may have been trying to hoop it at the start of his career, which would explain failure.

Are you sure you don't have the two mixed up? Can you name a specific series?

 

[TheJediBrah]

I feel like we've had this conversation on here a few time already with someone, might have been Bolo, insisting that McGrath was a swing bowler and swung the ball all the time

McGrath very rarely, if ever, swung the ball at all. A bit of slow reverse with the old ball (and literally the first 1 or 2 deliveries with the newey) was about it.

 

[Bolo]

I feel like we've had this conversation on here a few time already with someone, might have been Bolo, insisting that McGrath was a swing bowler and swung the ball all the time

McGrath very rarely, if ever, swung the ball at all. A bit of slow reverse with the old ball (and literally the first 1 or 2 deliveries with the newey) was about it.

I think you are remembering a conversation with me, just not completely. I said I remembered Mcgrath predominantly as a swing bowler, but accepted that this didn't accurately represent his career.

Simply remembering badly, having one or two unusual spells stand out and possibly confusing reverse and conventional all might play a role

If nothing else though, I saw him put through a sequence of high quality outswing. It's more than I can remember a bowler of highest calibre in one discipline managing in their weaker one, even if Pollock shows it did actually happen even if only considering bowlers I actually watched.

Mcgrath wasn't exactly Mitch. If he managed even a single quality spell of conventional he would have been able to turn it into pretty consistent feature. He just chose not to.

Are you sure you don't have the two mixed up? Can you name a specific series?

Not mixing the two up. Memory obviously an issue, but this isn't the problem.

Can't name a series. Impression formed sometime in the 90s though I think.

Anyway, I'll defer to concensus and disregard Mcgrath. Even if my dubious idea that he could bowl quality conventional was acceptable, he could only do so at the expense of his excellent seam- not a good idea.

 

[Bolo]

Donald was my third pick. Stacks of wickets from both swing and seam. Definitely not in the Mcgrath class as a seamer, and probably not in the Steyn class with swing, but the combination made him a top tier bowler.

 

[Black_Warrior]

Wasim and Steyn are clearly ahead of the rest when talking about the modern era but great bowlers could do pretty much both. Hadlee was an excellent exponent of lateral seam movemement. Waqar who was known for swing with his slingy actions did get seam movement under certain conditions in England.

 

[ankitj]

Any of those guys possess the cutter, if any?

Marshall had a legcutter as per his cricinfo profile iirc

 

[trundler]

And as per cricketing folklore, it was taught to him by Lillee

 

[Bolo]

Wasim and Steyn are clearly ahead of the rest when talking about the modern era but great bowlers could do pretty much both. Hadlee was an excellent exponent of lateral seam movemement. Waqar who was known for swing with his slingy actions did get seam movement under certain conditions in England.

How did Hadlee pick between seam and swing, balance/frequency?

 

[MartinB]

Bob Willis describes Lillee's "leg cutter" as "Fast leg spin" rather than a traditional leg Cutter. Early Lillee was more swing latter Lillee it was more cut (spin ?) and seam.

Bob Willis pictured Lillee's stock outswinger and classified it as a fast leg- break. taken from Wisden - The Ashes Masters

 

[trundler]

Here's a weird one.

Ryan Harris.

 

[SillyCowCorner1]

A leg cutter is different from the leg-spin

different axes of rotation. Same direction of rotation. Counter-clockwise.