Seam and conventional swing bowlers

[Victor Ian]

Doesn't the word Lillee alone convey a thousand words, just like a picture?

 

[trundler]

Doesn't the word Lillee alone convey a thousand words, just like a picture?

Yeah but not if you weren't there for it. To my knowledge Lillee used outswing as his primary weapon. Would like to know more about his seam movement.

 

[the big bambino]

When he got slower he developed a nice leg cutter.

 

[SeamUp]

I think CW's collective favourite Steyn is a good shout.

He is more pace and swing reliant. Not nearly as good at seaming

What about his off-cutter to right-hand batsmen that gets them LBW and the one that goes across lefties to nick them off. They not exactly straight anglers are they ?

With his natural swing direction not sure a leg-cutter as such would be needed.

 

[Burgey]

Yeah but not if you weren't there for it. To my knowledge Lillee used outswing as his primary weapon. Would like to know more about his seam movement.

Yeah he primarily bowled outswong when he was younger but developed both leg and offcutters as he got older. About the only thing he couldn’t bowl well was a Yorker tbh.

The ball he got Vic with on that day in Melbourne wa da subtle little inswwonger afte rhed ser him up with a couple of outies just on stumps. He KO’ed boycott with an off cutter a year or two earlier which boycs didn’t offer a shot too after he’d bowled exclusively leg cutters and outswingers to him for an hour. Bloke was a crazy smart bowler.

 

[Top_Cat]

What about his off-cutter to right-hand batsmen that gets them LBW and the one that goes across lefties to nick them off. They not exactly straight anglers are they ?

With his natural swing direction not sure a leg-cutter as such would be needed.

At the top level, leg-cutter is compulsory even if you swing them away and I'd say Steyn bowls them quite well. For example, when someone nicks someone off with one 'straighening down the line', it's really often a leg-cutter delivered from wide on the crease. Just looks straight on the TV.

 

[vcs]

Stuart Broad is pretty good at both seam and swing when it all comes together and he bowls one of those crazy spells of his.

 

[Bolo]

Was Mcgrath possibly a better seam/conventional combo bowler than Wasim? Streets ahead on movement off the seam, and looked to be a very good conventional bowler. Better bowler overall for sure, and a lot of Wasims quality came from reverse.

 

[Starfighter]

I'd say Wasim was a better conventional swing bowler by a good margin.

 

[Pup Clarke]

Dizzy Gillespie?

 

[Bolo]

I'd say Wasim was a better conventional swing bowler by a good margin.

Could be. It's definitely easy to default to this position. I'm not sure Mcgrath gets his due as a swing bowler on account of it being a secondary skill. Mcgrath seemed to practically be Anderson when bowling swing, and even if he wasn't Wasim quality, maybe the gap is smaller than that of the seam difference?

IDK, just spitballing.

 

[MW1304]

Yeah he primarily bowled outswong when he was younger but developed both leg and offcutters as he got older. About the only thing he couldn’t bowl well was a Yorker tbh.

The ball he got Vic with on that day in Melbourne wa da subtle little inswwonger afte rhed ser him up with a couple of outies just on stumps. He KO’ed boycott with an off cutter a year or two earlier which boycs didn’t offer a shot too after he’d bowled exclusively leg cutters and outswingers to him for an hour. Bloke was a crazy smart bowler.

Er, you okay there Burge?

 

[smash84]

Could be. It's definitely easy to default to this position. I'm not sure Mcgrath gets his due as a swing bowler on account of it being a secondary skill. Mcgrath seemed to practically be Anderson when bowling swing, and even if he wasn't Wasim quality, maybe the gap is smaller than that of the seam difference?

IDK, just spitballing.

McGrath really wasn't a great swing bowler. He didn't need to be. His method worked on all wickets around the world. He could swing the ball for sure (could even reverse it a bit) but he was nothing special in the swing department.

 

[Bolo]

McGrath really wasn't a great swing bowler. He didn't need to be. His method worked on all wickets around the world. He could swing the ball for sure (could even reverse it a bit) but he was nothing special in the swing department.

So I've heard. He looked excellent to me when he was trying to bowl swing instead of seam though, even if it was not as good as his seam.

He accidentally swung it from the to time (more often than on purpose?) and maybe wasn't at his best then, but any bowler looks bad when they are below their best.

His reverse was nothing special, but it's a different question.

So few names put forward in response to the question. If people were praising a number of bowlers in the same way as Asif I might not be going out of my way to give Mcgrath props here. But it does feel like he must be near the top of the pile when considering both.

 

[smash84]

So I've heard. He looked excellent to me when he was trying to bowl swing instead of seam though, even if it was not as good as his seam.

He accidentally swung it from the to time (more often than on purpose?) and maybe wasn't at his best then, but any bowler looks bad when they are below their best.

His reverse was nothing special, but it's a different question.

So few names put forward in response to the question. If people were praising a number of bowlers in the same way as Asif I might not be going out of my way to give Mcgrath props here. But it does feel like he must be near the top of the pile when considering both.

I followed a fair bit of his career and I really don't recall him being very special in swinging the ball. He was very very good with seam and accuracy though.

Richie Benaud put it very nicely though "if you wake McGrath in the middle of the night and ask him to bowl, he would still land them on a sixpence over after over"

 

[Starfighter]

Could be. It's definitely easy to default to this position. I'm not sure Mcgrath gets his due as a swing bowler on account of it being a secondary skill. Mcgrath seemed to practically be Anderson when bowling swing, and even if he wasn't Wasim quality, maybe the gap is smaller than that of the seam difference?

Point out a time when McGrath ran though a side bowling conventional swing, let alone Anderson like. I'd hesitate to say he took more a than low single figures % of his test wickets with conventional swing at the most.

 

[the big bambino]

Yeah McGrath was great but not much of a swing bowler, let alone someone who could produce those World Cup deliveries like Akram

 

[Bolo]

Point out a time when McGrath ran though a side bowling conventional swing, let alone Anderson like. I'd hesitate to say he took more a than low single figures % of his test wickets with conventional swing at the most.

I don't remember him ever running through a side with swing, and I'm sure his wicket % is low. But I think this reflects more on his ability to bowl seam than swing. Seam being his preferred mode doesn't mean he wasn't quality when he went that route.

As pure seamers, the only guys I'd think of putting in McGraths tier were Ambrose, Pollock and Philander. None of them close to his quality as swing bowlers, even if you consider Mcgrath pretty mediocre. Clearly top of the pile for this balance and deserves some credit.

If Mcgrath were only allowed to bowl swing, I'd back him ahead of just about any predominantly swing bowler only bowling seam. This may not be a fair comparison though- the value add from their seam might far exceed his swing because they can mix up the two

 

[Starfighter]

When did he go that route though? Part of the reason why he didn't perform in his first few matches was because he was trying to bowl outswing and didn't bowl well as a result.

Pollock was definitely a better swing bowler and actually used it with some regularity.

 

[smash84]

yeah, I'd put Pollock ahead of McGrath for swing too. Both were just not well known for swing though. Both didn't need it too much either.