Sachin Tendulkar vs Matthew Hayden

[shortpitched713]

the former isn't massively disadvantaged if they happen to be in the flattest era ever while playing for the best team ever in 1 of the best places to bat ever and yes 2 of these 3 do apply to a part of Tendulkar too but he at least has a resume in the 90s worthy of being exempted

Just look at the numbers for overall averages of openers vs middle order bats, even in the flat pitch era. The amount of disadvantage doesn't change in the flat pitch era compared to the rest of the modern era.

Which means if Hayden had it easy to pile on runs, a middle order bat should have had it EVEN EASIER.

 

[Socerer 01]

Just look at the numbers for overall averages of openers vs middle order bats, even in the flat pitch era. The amount of disadvantage doesn't change in the flat pitch era compared to the rest of the modern era.

Which means if Hayden had it easy to pile on runs, a middle order bat should have had it EVEN EASIER.

did you just ignore the last part of my post??

 

[BazBall21]

All right, more informative posts now. Feel free to chip in but here is my list of top 20 test batsman in last 50 years:-

Top 4 - S Smith, Tendulkar, Lara, Viv

5-10 - Gavaskar, Chappell, Ponting, Kallis, Sangakkara, Gilchrist

11-15 - Root, Border, Dravid, Miandad, S Waugh

16-20 - kohli, Lloyd, Greenidge, Smith, de Villiers

Honourable mentions( close ones):

21-30 - Hayden, Sehwag, M Crowe, Shiv Chanderpaul, Younis, Cook, Amla, Clarke, KP, Inzamam,Williamson

Pretty good. Don't agree with everything but pretty good.

 

[Coronis]

Funny and meaningless (?) stat.

In matches they played together:

in Australia:
Hayden - 861 @ 71.75
Tendulkar - 792 @ 79.20

in India:
Hayden - 874 @ 54.62
Tendulkar - 770 @ 45.29

 

[shortpitched713]

did you just ignore the last part of my post??

I count Tendulkar's exemplary performance in the mide / late 90s as a point in his favor in overall evaluation. So I don't think that part really needs to be addressed. I think Sachin's a legend, and ATG. But someone has to make a point against Hayden's record as not being historic, which simply hasn't been done, other than muh flattrack bullys bad.

 

[shortpitched713]

This isn't true is it? In any ATG XI selection, Hayden's name won't come up for consideration before Hobbs, Hutton, Gavaskar, Sutcliffe for anyone who has some sense. Tendulkar is in that initial shortlist for sure.

Respectfully, **** the ATG conversation for a moment. Hobbs didn't have to face **** like what Gavaskar or even Hayden did when it comes to pace bowling threat, with the new ball.

For modern batsmen, besides Gavaskar, why are we picking any openers over Hayden?

 

[PlayerComparisons]

Respectfully, **** the ATG conversation for a moment. Hobbs didn't have to face **** like what Gavaskar or even Hayden did when it comes to pace bowling threat, with the new ball.

For modern batsmen, besides Gavaskar, why are we picking any openers over Hayden?

Graeme Smith, Greenidge, boycott, and sehwag are usually rated higher than Hayden here

 

[trundler]

We agree that this comparison is the result of someone deciding Tendulkar is overrated and then working backwards from that, yes?

 

[shortpitched713]

Sachin is obviously the greater absolute bat BUT he faces much closer competition for his slot. Hayden is one of the better openers in recent times & would probably be shortlisted if not locked in for his slot.

Sachin has a fair few batsmen as successful as him. Viv, Smith, Lara and Ponting are ahead for me. A few others there or there abouts.

I was surprised SRT never hit 900 rating points in any format [unless I overlooked the data], which reflects that he never dominated anyone for a sustained period. Consistent excellence but no scaling the proverbial mountain.

This is the crux of my whole argument. I'm glad for people to argue against it, but I'm glad there's someone else who isn't simply dismissing it as ludicrous, especially given Hayden's historic output.

 

[Socerer 01]

We agree that this comparison is the result of someone deciding Tendulkar is overrated and then working backwards from that, yes?

think this has been the consensus from day 1 and op has been randomly throwing statements of varying dubiousness like underperformance, inconsistency in the hope that 1 of them will stick

 

[shortpitched713]

We agree that this comparison is the result of someone deciding Tendulkar is overrated and then working backwards from that, yes?

Nah, that's strawmanning me like ****.

I've indicated multiple times that I think Tendulkar is an ATG batsman (albeit not one beyond scrutiny). Hayden is the one who is massively underrated around here, for mine.

 

[Adorable Asshole]

Adjusted away averages

Graeme Smith 46.53
Alastair Cook 42.60
Matthew Hayden 41.42
Virender Sehwag 38.37

@trundler

 

[ankitj]

Funny and meaningless (?) stat.

In matches they played together:

in Australia:
Hayden - 861 @ 71.75
Tendulkar - 792 @ 79.20

in India:
Hayden - 874 @ 54.62
Tendulkar - 770 @ 45.29

Overall batting averages in those matches:

In India: 34
In Australia: 44

So whoever said that Indian conditions were easier to bat in was probably wrong.

Team records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPNcricinfo.com

stats.espncricinfo.com

 

[shortpitched713]

Overall batting averages in those matches:

In India: 34
In Australia: 44

So whoever said that Indian conditions were easier to bat in was probably wrong.

Team records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPNcricinfo.com

stats.espncricinfo.com

It's only 9 and 7 matches though.

Still is interesting though, will grant you.

 

[ataraxia]

Your second point is noted, but doesn't make up for periods of under-performance from Sachin.

Yet you ignore the periods of similar underperformance from Hayden from 1988 to 2000 and 2008 to 2011, when he by-and-large wasn't even good enough to be selected in the team. Clearly Tendulkar's relative underperformance in his teens, early 30s, and late 30s is still much superior to Hayden's lack of performance at all, and his peak was obviously well superior too, and longer.

 

[_00_deathscar]

Still think this is some elaborate joke. Kallis, Miandad and Sanga are bad enough but at least there’s a very flimsy and poor argument there.

Surely no one seriously considers Hayden better than Sachin?

 

[centurymaker]

It's not some elaborate joke..
It is a clear cut agenda

 

[Adorable Asshole]

It's not some elaborate joke..
It is a clear cut agenda

What agenda?

 

[Burgey]

This thread is a ****ing joke. Ban this **** for even making it. Embarrassing to think Hayden is in the same league as Tendulkar. The **** is wrong with people. Seriously.

 

[Burgey]

There's nobody outside that top 10 that's definitely better than Root or Kohli.

Root's never made a ****ing hundred in Australia. He's not fit to carry the jockstraps of about 20 blokes who've played in the past 30 years. He's not worth a squirt of piss here, and it's the biggest series England plays.