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Road to Euro 2024

sledger

Spanish_Vicente
Zidane was amazing, but it is possible for players to look better than they are. If you’re playing Real Madrid in the early 2000s and given the choice between OG Ronaldo being out injured and Zidane being out injured, I don’t really think it’s close.
Tbf to some extent that may be because with Zidane out you still have Figo and a few others, but the backup to Ronaldo was Javier Portillo.
 

Furball

Evil Scotsman
I still thought he looked pretty good to me, although of course he did get sent off foolishly.

For me, it was the latter mid 90s that Serie A started to go a little downhill with the Spanish League starting to overtake it. I used to watch it quite a lot when it was on C4 in the early to mid 90s.
Italian clubs dominated the UEFA Cup through the 1990s. Given the Champions League was 1 or 2 teams max until the change in format in 1999, the UEFA Cup was the measure of a league's strength.
 

Furball

Evil Scotsman
Zidane is very much a pre-stats player, sort of the last of those mythical footballers. I wonder how he would be rated today.

If there is a somewhat forgotten brilliant player from Brazil I reckon it is Rivaldo.
His hat-trick goal to drag Barcelona into the Champions League spots in a last day 3-2 win against Valencia is proper Roy of the Rovers stuff.
 

Chin Music

State 12th Man
Italian clubs dominated the UEFA Cup through the 1990s. Given the Champions League was 1 or 2 teams max until the change in format in 1999, the UEFA Cup was the measure of a league's strength.
My memories were of the two Milan clubs and Juve looking brilliant until the mid 90s but not quite being at the same force afterwards. AC Milan in particular kept the same spine going for donkeys years. Some great players although Milan had an ageing team. I remember the UEFA being a better tournament pre Champions League. Napoli circa 87 (I think) being a classic example of not always the best clubs getting to play in the biggest competition.
 

Ali TT

International Regular
Keane, Vieira, Zidane, Kaka, Gazza - that's quite a mix of players to compare Bellingham to. Could we chuck in Cannavaro, Cafu and Haaland to make him 99 across the board?

A clip of Ronaldinho doing mad skillz on a football field popped up on my TikTok yesterday. Mad being the right word as I think he's gone full delulu since retiring, not sure he's still in prison in Paraguay?
 

BoyBrumby

Englishman
I feel like Bellingham is the sort of player you imagine Duncan Edwards to have been when you read accounts of players who played alongside him.

Also going to throw it out there that Zidane is probably the most over-rated modern footballer there is; good international tournaments in 2000 and 2006, along with a spectacular goal at Hampden in the 2002 Champions League final do a lot of heavy lifting for a fairly average club career.
Just for clarity's sake: my like referenced the section in bold rather than the ZZ bashing.

What I will say of Zidane is that he couldn't headbutt for shit though.

I'd throw Roberto Carlos's hat into the ring for the most overrated modern(ish) player. One can make a good highlight reel of his lung busting runs and that goal in the Tournoi v Johnny Frog, but he never seemed to do much actual defending and he played in the era before it was fashionable to rate full backs solely on their attacking prowess.


Zidane is very much a pre-stats player, sort of the last of those mythical footballers. I wonder how he would be rated today.

If there is a somewhat forgotten brilliant player from Brazil I reckon it is Rivaldo.
Yeah, if he's remembered at all now it's for hysterically hurling himself to the ground clutching his face after being lightly tapped in the midriff by the ball.
 

sledger

Spanish_Vicente
My defining memories of Rivaldo are him being great in the 2002 World Cup (the face clutching incident notwithstanding) and him, despite being pretty aged, nearly hauling a terrible Olympiakos team to a result at Anfield only for his efforts to be foiled by last minute Gerrard.
 

ripper868

International Coach
Yeah, if he's remembered at all now it's for hysterically hurling himself to the ground clutching his face after being lightly tapped in the midriff by the ball.
The difference being that every player now does this for any slight (or even, implied) contact.

Hilarious at the time though tbf.
 

Molehill

International Captain
My defining memories of Rivaldo are him being great in the 2002 World Cup (the face clutching incident notwithstanding) and him, despite being pretty aged, nearly hauling a terrible Olympiakos team to a result at Anfield only for his efforts to be foiled by last minute Gerrard.
I had had a decent sized bet on Ronaldo being top scorer at the 2002 World Cup. Through the early stages Rivaldo scored more goals and I was concerned I'd backed the wrong R'o!! Came good in the end though.
 

Chin Music

State 12th Man
I had had a decent sized bet on Ronaldo being top scorer at the 2002 World Cup. Through the early stages Rivaldo scored more goals and I was concerned I'd backed the wrong R'o!! Came good in the end though.
I continue to have great fun in winding up CR7 fanboys by claiming the Brazilian Ronaldo is by far the better player. In truth in terms of career achievement, CR7 is better when you consider Champions League winning and goals over a sustained period, but in terms of true flair and impact at world cups, if you limit to that criteria then the Brazilian version wins.
 

wpdavid

Hall of Fame Member
I was just trying to think who in the past I could compare Bellingham with. There's a bit of Vieira there too (who did have a mercurial side), but he never scored goals like Jude.
During the WC, I said he reminded me of Bryan Robson. I'll stick with that comparison for present, if only for England rather than what he's doing for Real Madrid.
 

sledger

Spanish_Vicente
Players finding some arbitrary reason to accuse people of not being "real fans" has to be one of the most rollseyes sporting things. Bore off Maguire.
 

Molehill

International Captain
Players finding some arbitrary reason to accuse people of not being "real fans" has to be one of the most rollseyes sporting things. Bore off Maguire.
Weird thing for him to say. Just about clinging to credibility in the England team, he'd have been better off keeping quiet, now he's an even bigger target.

And if him, Southgate and the others don't get the Henderson thing then they must be seriously ****ing stupid.
 

sledger

Spanish_Vicente
It's just dumb imo. Players and coaches and whoever switch between "they pay for their tickets and can say what the want" and "not real fans" crap whenever it's convenient for whatever narrative they want to establish. If they honestly can't understand why Henderson is being booked (and I doubt this is really the case) they're really ****ing stupid.
 

wpdavid

Hall of Fame Member
And if him, Southgate and the others don't get the Henderson thing then they must be seriously ****ing stupid.
I'd be astonished if Southgate didn't understand the Henderson thing. Whatever his faults, stupidity isn't one of them. But with respect, what isn't wise is expecting him not to publicly back one of his players in those circumstances. Glenn Hoddle he isn't (see Glenda's comments about Beckham after the 1998 WC), and quite right too.
 
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BoyBrumby

Englishman
Said some weird things about his players in public, the old cripple kicker, didn't he?

Didn't he opine Michael Owen wasn't a natural finisher? And this was the prime, jet heeled teenage Micky Owen who looked like he was the cure for cancer at that stage.
 

grecian

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
The thing is Bellingham's switch to a more attacking position, weirdly makes southgate double-pivot position actually seem better, particularly as Rice actually doesn't mind going forward himself, but it clearly means a much better player will be dropped, who is an attacking player, for a more defensive one, but TBH surely 100s of great team have had this problem, for balance.

The thing is it seems to be between Phillips, who can't get in his club team, and Henderson who is aging and not playing in a great league. personally I would happily go for Rico Lewis or James Ward-Prowse for those positions myself. It's probably early for Lewis, but he seems to be ranked higher for the best club side in the World by Pep than Phillips, so ya know..
 

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