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RIP Lloyd Fouracre

Langeveldt

Soutie
I didn't know the guy all that well but a number of my friends are fairly inconsolable tonight after what happened here this morning.. I guess all one can say is RIP and lets hope the justice system comes down heavily on the perpetrators.. Its going to be an odd atmosphere at college tomorrow, perhaps the worst thing is that these acts of violence seem totally inevitable now even in this supposedly quiet town...

I guess things get put into perspective when the value of human life comes down to the value of a cellphone or a wallet..

News story
 

Blaze

Banned
****ing disgraceful. It makes me feel physically sick. I went to a party on Saturday night and a group of about 5 or 6 guys just turned up and started beating the crap out of an innocent guy who had never met them before. He had to go to hospital. And that's the 3rd time in 3 weeks that something similar to that has happened to someone I know.

Something is very wrong with the world it seems.
 

PommieMacGill

State Regular
Sorry to hear that, mate. It's awful when someone so young is taken away far before their time.

Like Blaze said, something is wrong with the world today, the world really is going mad. I mean, I know it's a cliche, but these days kids have no respect. I mean these days you only have to look at someone wrong and you are in trouble, especially if they are part of a gang.

Shocking, and totally disgusting.

RIP.
 

Langeveldt

Soutie
Ive been thinking about it all day, I mean surely this kind of stuff has always happened.. But you only start really thinking when someone you know gets murdered.. I mean is it a British malaise or a Worldwide malaise or a 21st century problem? I've had enough mates beaten up to stop walking into town now, which surely shouldn't be happening..

If there is something to "blame" then it must be alcohol.. I know Lloyd and Zak the guy he was with had a few too many at the party.. Who knows what went on, but alcohol only aggrevates potentially bad situations..
 
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PommieMacGill

State Regular
Rich, I would say that you've hit the nail on the head there. The root of this problem is alcohol, but I think it's been the same for over 30 years now. People of our age (18 or so) just want to go out and get bladdered every weekend.

Obviously, alcohol has different effects on people. For instance, some people just want to fight, whereas others just get merry and a little bit silly. But I think when you get the former, especially with young lads in groups, it is inevitably going to lead to trouble.

There are too many cases like your friend Lloyd's, where that trouble leads to someone being killed or seriously injured. And what for? A mobile phone, or a wallet. It is disgusting.

I really think that the Government has got to battle the problem of binge-drinking, and under age drinking. It is becoming a big problem.
 

Langeveldt

Soutie
PommieMacGill said:
I really think that the Government has got to battle the problem of binge-drinking, and under age drinking. It is becoming a big problem.
Hence allowing pubs to open 24 hours? We have to live with a government who are unfortunatly busy doing other things..

No amount of "community policing schemes" (how soft is that?) will deter a drunken guy with a metal pole on a street corner at night
 

marc71178

Eyes not spreadsheets
Personally I think the 24 hour opening will reduce binge drinking.

No longer is there the need to cram so much alcohol down your throat in a short period (assuming of course that pubs do actually stay open 24 hours that is - round here it's basically most places staying open an extra hour or 2 at weekends)

I also look at places like France, Germany etc with the more relaxed licencing laws - do we hear of trouble over there?
 

PommieMacGill

State Regular
I suspect the reason the "Europeans" do not have societal problems, despite having 24 hour drinking and more relaxed licensing laws, is because their societies are in total far more cultured and respectable than ours. They most certainly do not have hordes of teenage chavs who consider it fun to fight, having fuelled themselves on ****tails of drink and drugs. Reduce this please Mr Blair, rather than giving them longer hours to scream in the streets scaring residents.

This is not Europe. UK and Ireland have a "pub culture", the majority of Europe does not. Shorter pub opening hours would help... not longer.
 

andyc

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
It is absolutely horrible, and I think Rich is right in saying it is mostly due to alcohol. The idiots go out, and instead of just having a good, stupid time with their mates, decide it'd be more fun to beat up someone they've never met before. Now the lives of 5 teenagers have been absolutely p***ed away. Despite that, it often is just the attitude of the people as well-- violence can solve anything, and the whole 'nothing's going to happen to me' mindset. Something does need to be done, but the problem is, what?
 

FaaipDeOiad

Hall of Fame Member
Alcohol is an excuse, not a cause.

In the country town I was born in, there was a guy who was fairly well known around town who was brutally beaten up outside the local pub in the early hours of a monday morning quite a number of years ago by a bunch of guys who knew him only a little. He was around 30 or so, in the prime of his life, and he suffered permanent brain damage and died of various health problems related to the attack about a year later. Everyone assumed at the time that the people who beat him up were drunk, and that there'd been an argument or something and Pete had been attacked because of it, but after they were taken in by the cops and questioned and so on everyone realised that because it was around 3am on a monday, and that particular pub closed at midday on sunday, the location had just been a co-incidence and apparently none of the attackers had a drop... they just didn't happen to like Pete very much.

The point is, that you can't blame alcohol for what people do when they're drinking it. People behave in stupid, dangerous ways all the time anyway, and alcohol doesn't force you to do anything you otherwise wouldn't do. The cause of pointless violence is the attitudes of the perpetrators, and you can point your finger any number of places to find the cause of those attitudes. Personally, I think problems with violence, particularly in young males, can in certain ways be tracked back to the fact that violent behaviour is sensationalised in popular culture in many ways. I'm not talking about Tarantino films or rap music, but about things like sport, and also the rather tribal nature of school life, particularly in poorer areas, and just the general fact that violent behaviour is considered fairly normal for a decent young man. If people are taught that violence is fairly acceptable and fighting is a rite of passage for a self-respecting young male, that's far more likely to cause people to be violent than what they were drinking beforehand.

After all, how many of us drink fairly regularly but have never been in a fight whilst drunk?
 

_Ed_

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
FaaipDeOiad said:
After all, how many of us drink fairly regularly but have never been in a fight whilst drunk?
Very good point, I've never gone close to fighting and the angriest any of my friends has been after drinking was when he returned from the toilet to find that another one of my mates had stolen his beer...that had become laughter within five seconds though.

This is such horrible behaviour, I was abolutely shocked to hear about it. I don't understand why people behave like that after drinking, when I go out with friends just to be a bit silly I have an awesome time, I've had some truly great nights. Behaviour like this scares some of the rest of us away from having the freedom to go out at night, something we should be able to do without having to keep glancing over our shoulder.

A good night should be something you regret with the headache the next morning (although you don't even need to drink at all, but I find the sillyness it causes makes it great fun), it shouldn't be something you regret for the rest of your life.
 
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andyc

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
FaaipDeOiad said:
Personally, I think problems with violence, particularly in young males, can in certain ways be tracked back to the fact that violent behaviour is sensationalised in popular culture in many ways. I'm not talking about Tarantino films or rap music, but about things like sport, and also the rather tribal nature of school life, particularly in poorer areas, and just the general fact that violent behaviour is considered fairly normal for a decent young man. If people are taught that violence is fairly acceptable and fighting is a rite of passage for a self-respecting young male, that's far more likely to cause people to be violent than what they were drinking beforehand.
Great post there Faaip.

Moving back from my school in Shanghai, which was co-ed, to my school here, which is all boys, I've noticed a big difference. Here, the biggest guys have their way, and bullying is pretty common, and the way the opposite *** is thought of and talked about is pretty derogatory. At parties, for example, a good night is gauged by how many girls you hook up with rather than just how much fun you have. In Shanghai, at the co-ed school, violence and bullying was virtually non existent, and people went to parties to have fun rather than bang someone. This could just be my naivety talking here, from being in an international--and therefore much more tolerant-- community to being in Australia, but the whole culture of all-boys schools hardly seems to do much to discourage violence.
 

_Ed_

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
andyc said:
Great post there Faaip.

Moving back from my school in Shanghai, which was co-ed, to my school here, which is all boys, I've noticed a big difference. Here, the biggest guys have their way, and bullying is pretty common, and the way the opposite *** is thought of and talked about is pretty derogatory. At parties, for example, a good night is gauged by how many girls you hook up with rather than just how much fun you have. In Shanghai, at the co-ed school, violence and bullying was virtually non existent, and people went to parties to have fun rather than bang someone. This could just be my naivety talking here, from being in an international--and therefore much more tolerant-- community to being in Australia, but the whole culture of all-boys schools hardly seems to do much to discourage violence.
Yeah parties were like that when I was at high school here in NZ too, certainly not my sort of thing.

That's why it's such a pleasure now to be able to go to a bar with mates and just sit around a table and have a few drinks and talk.
 

marc71178

Eyes not spreadsheets
PommieMacGill said:
This is not Europe. UK and Ireland have a "pub culture", the majority of Europe does not. Shorter pub opening hours would help... not longer.
Shorter hours would mean people try to drink even more quickly than they do now.
 

_Ed_

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
marc71178 said:
Shorter hours would mean people try to drink even more quickly than they do now.
True, like the days of the "six o'clock swill" here in NZ when they closed at 6pm many years ago.
 

Craig

World Traveller
Absolute farcial herw what has happened.

I don't know but everybody seems to have a chip on their shoulder (that said I can say I tend to have at least one myself) and want to fight and what Sean said is correct.

Maybe people need a lot more disapline in their lifes or need good anger management (despite the fact I get angry fairly quickly I feel as though I can control my temper when I have too).
 

Craig

World Traveller
Also over here there was a street brawl down in the sourthern part of the Gold Coast ( as the 6th largest city in Australia it is a far way down) involving 30 teenagers and they include firearms, baseball bats, and hammers.

Then two and a half hours later police were called to another brawl at a pub in Burleigh (again in the sourthern part) where this time 40 people were invloved included pool cues, glasses, and bar stools.

And this was either last night or the night before.
 

PommieMacGill

State Regular
marc71178 said:
Shorter hours would mean people try to drink even more quickly than they do now.
Well, I'm certainly against 24 hour pubs. I most certainly don't want to see drunken idiots wandering about town centre's at 9am in the morning.
 

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