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Richard Hadlee as a batsman - how good was he? Overrated, underrated?

Athlai

Not Terrible
by this dumb logic all of Kapil's wickets are worth more than any of Hadlee's given he had to bowl on those same dead pitches in meaningless draws
He bowled on them a bit yeah, but mostly the spinners suffered through it and he'd get a new or aged ball to work with.

Not that hard to figure out really.
 

mr_mister

Hall of Fame Member
At one point did Imran and then Kapil surpass Botham as a bat? Hell maybe in the final few years of their era Hadlee surpassed him too
 

Burgey

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Hadlee was really a very good lower order hitter for the most part. A moderate upgrade on Mitchell Johnson-level batting. Dangerous player when he got going but very hit or miss.
 

mr_mister

Hall of Fame Member
Hadlee was really a very good lower order hitter for the most part. A moderate upgrade on Mitchell Johnson-level batting. Dangerous player when he got going but very hit or miss.
Would you place Kapil in the same category? Or was he more consistent
 

mr_mister

Hall of Fame Member
Botham really throws a spanner in the works when ordering these guys as batsmen and bowlers

Was definitely better than them all for a long period as a batsman, and was better than Kapil at least and probably not too far behind the other 2 as a bowler for a while... But by the end of his career ranked arguably dead last in both disciplines
 

Fuller Pilch

International Coach
Amazing for Notts in county cricket when most teams were stacked with West Indian quicks.
In 1984 when he did the 1,000 run/100 wicket double he averaged over 50 with the bat and 14 with the ball. Overall for Notts he played 148 fc matches scoring 5854 runs at 38.76 and taking 622 wickets at 14.51.
 

mr_mister

Hall of Fame Member
Another interesting thing about him is that his average of 27.17 is actually higher than two mainstays of the batting order in the 80s of Jeff Crowe and Ken Rutherford, and only slightly behind Geoff Howarth, Bevan Congdon and Mark Burgess

It probably says more about NZ batting stocks at the time more than anything else, but would Hadlee ever warranted a place in the XI as a batsman alone at any point?
 

Athlai

Not Terrible
Another interesting thing about him is that his average of 27 is actually higher than two mainstays of the batting order in the 80s of Jeff Crowe and Ken Rutherford, and only slightly behind Geoff Howarth

It probably says more about NZ batting stocks at the time more than anything else, but would Hadlee ever warranted a place in the XI as a batsman alone at any point?
Hard to say but I'm pretty sure if he had a season focusing on batting alone he'd be able to earn a call up.
 

h_hurricane

International Vice-Captain
Hadlee, in a way was lucky that he was in the right team in the right time. In a better team with a better batting setup, he would be batting at no.9 and not scoring any of the two hundreds he managed.
 

Prince EWS

Global Moderator
Another interesting thing about him is that his average of 27.17 is actually higher than two mainstays of the batting order in the 80s of Jeff Crowe and Ken Rutherford, and only slightly behind Geoff Howarth, Bevan Congdon and Mark Burgess

It probably says more about NZ batting stocks at the time more than anything else, but would Hadlee ever warranted a place in the XI as a batsman alone at any point?
This has come up before and I believe the answer was yes, in the second half of his career.
 

Fuller Pilch

International Coach
Hadlee, in a way was lucky that he was in the right team in the right time. In a better team with a better batting setup, he would be batting at no.9 and not scoring any of the two hundreds he managed.
Not actually true. Ian Smith would've batted 7 for many teams of that era. From 1975-1990 he had the 4th highest batting average for keepers with 1,000 runs (26.91) behind Dujon, Knott, and Kirmani (ahead of good batters in Marsh and Murray). John Bracewell was also handy with the bat as were occasional spinners Evan Gray and Vaughan Brown.
 

Smudge

Hall of Fame Member
For a man who had no issue talking up his own talents, Hadlee freely admitted in many interviews that he was a front-dogger bully. If the ball was up, no dramas, but he was a bit hit and miss with the short ball.
 

h_hurricane

International Vice-Captain
Could that be said about Kapils wicket aggregate?
Probably no, because better bowling team consistently picks 20 wickets in a match. That gives you enough opportunities to pick up your share of the spoil, the icing on the cake is that you get a chance to have a go at tail enders to improve your bowling average. But batting works differently. You can only score runs if you get enough chance to bat and that too if the opposition hasn't been beaten yet.
So, imo, better team enhances your bowling opportunities but diminishes your batting opportunities. It is a slightly different case though, if you are picked as the fifth bowler.

An example, though for middle order bats.
Viv Richards only played 1.5 innings per test match.
Brian Lara, part of much weaker team batted nearly 1.8 innings per test match.
 

Daemon

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I feel like this is one of those things only people who watched enough of both (and who don’t generally have terrible opinions) can answer.

Lower order stats can be quite contextual. Not quite LOI levels but still easy enough to misinterpret.

On the surface it does seem like Kapil was comfortably better.
 

Fuller Pilch

International Coach
Not actually true. Ian Smith would've batted 7 for many teams of that era. From 1975-1990 he had the 4th highest batting average for keepers with 1,000 runs (26.91) behind Dujon, Knott, and Kirmani (ahead of good batters in Marsh and Murray). John Bracewell was also handy with the bat as were occasional spinners Evan Gray and Vaughan Brown.
And Martin Snedden who usually batted 10 randomly opened in the 1987 WC.
 

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