Repercussions

[Arjun]

You must be kidding dude? Dhoni is the best indian captain of the last 25 years that I have been watching cricket. You must be out of your mind. Ok so India lost one series after a long time but get a grip.

They've lost the series, lost three in a row and lost the top spot in Tests, and may lose their Top Three status a lot sooner. Dhoni's captaincy in the last two years has been dreadful. It is just the players who have performed well to take India to victory (and CSK is largely dependent on its imports), hiding Dhoni's inadequacies as captain. His captaincy has been sub-Tendulkar, without deliberate underperformers and regionalistic selections (although age-group selections are rampant now).

The other reason for a possible change of captaincy is to get back India's best wicketkeeper-batsman. Looking at his opposite number, Matt Prior is every bit the batsman and wicketkeeper Dhoni is, but without the pressures of captaincy. While England can afford to elevate him to top six status, India need Dhoni in the top six. He under-rates himself as a batsman and doesn't bat particularly freely, and without the weight of captaincy, the runs will (or should) come flowing from his bat once more.

 

[GIMH]

Matt Prior isn't 'every bit' the Keeper and Batsman Dhoni is, he is far, far superior.

 

[Arjun]

An ideal coach for India would be a recently-retired former player. While I'm not a crazy big fan of Gary Kirsten's tenure (that I'd litter my posts with sobbies and hanker for his return; it's not that simple), India won a World Cup and went to the top in Tests under him, so the next coach should have been one like him. Stephen Fleming was a much-discussed name, although he's only been a T20 coach of a team that's hardly played as a team. I'd plump for Matthew Hayden, who has won titles for Australia, much as he's very un-Kirsten and more towards the Chappell/Buchanan style, but far from that extreme. A completely unusual approach would be to cross the strait for a different shade of blue, and have Sanath or Vaas as coach of India, and it would have its advantages.

However, the best choice would be to have one of Ganguly, Kumble or Dravid as India coach, as they can understand the players a lot better and help them out appropriately, and help fringe players settle in the setup. Besides, these are hardly the kind of coaches who act like office-bearers and play to domestic politics, that most Indians assume of Indian coaches- you can't buy these three. I'd plump for one of them to be elevated to the rank, and stay with the team even during limited-overs events. Let's do a Shane Warne without the Hollywood.

Yes, I understand it's premature to speculate, but in the wake of the meteoric fall of the Indian side, and Fletcher's warped comments after being appointed (India needs Ashley Giles, among others), the possibility cannot be ruled out. Greg Chappell didn't even last two years in India.

 

[centurymaker]

dhoni has indeed been quite ordinary as captain for the last couple years.

 

[marc71178]

Yes, I understand it's premature to speculate, but in the wake of the meteoric fall of the Indian side, and Fletcher's warped comments after being appointed (India needs Ashley Giles, among others), the possibility cannot be ruled out. Greg Chappell didn't even last two years in India.

Do you mean some spoofers comments that have for some bizarre reason been attributed to Fletcher?

I'd love to know how he is getting all the blame for this when he has had no input into the tour schedule or the squad or the resting of players etc. from previous series - I think anyone who is blaming him is doing so because they don't want to accept the actual truth about India's shortcomings.

 

[Top_Cat]

Gotta blame someone*.



*other than the players.

 

[wpdavid]

Anyone want to take a guess at who might represent India when England tour there in 18 months time?

 

[centurymaker]

actually england will be touring india in 14 months from now

Sehwag
Gambhir
Dravid
Tendulkar
Laxman
Pujara
Dhoni
Ashwin
Praveen
Sharma
Ohja

pretty much the same team i would say.

 

[smash84]

They've lost the series, lost three in a row and lost the top spot in Tests, and may lose their Top Three status a lot sooner. Dhoni's captaincy in the last two years has been dreadful. It is just the players who have performed well to take India to victory (and CSK is largely dependent on its imports), hiding Dhoni's inadequacies as captain. His captaincy has been sub-Tendulkar, without deliberate underperformers and regionalistic selections (although age-group selections are rampant now).

Dhoni has always been the kind of captain who is an excellent man manager and not that great tactically. He is quite defensive at times but that has been his strength so far. On paper India had a better line-up before Dhoni took over but the performance has been much better since he is in charge. Is that a coincidence. So how many series has India lost under Dhoni? For a captain who has done a fantastic job for so long you want to remove him from the job because of just one series? Also it has to be borne in mind that there were other factors (injuries) that compounded Dhoni's problems. Not saying that India would have won if all the Indian team would have been fit but at least the margin of loss would have been lesser.

The other reason for a possible change of captaincy is to get back India's best wicketkeeper-batsman. Looking at his opposite number, Matt Prior is every bit the batsman and wicketkeeper Dhoni is, but without the pressures of captaincy. While England can afford to elevate him to top six status, India need Dhoni in the top six. He under-rates himself as a batsman and doesn't bat particularly freely, and without the weight of captaincy, the runs will (or should) come flowing from his bat once more.

Dhoni is a good (almost ATG) ODI batsman but has never been a great test batsman so I don't really see the comparison with Prior cropping up just now. He has always been like this but due to the team losses his performance comes u nder the scanner

 

[wpdavid]

actually england will be touring india in 14 months from now

Sehwag
Gambhir
Dravid
Tendulkar
Laxman
Pujara
Dhoni
Ashwin
Praveen
Sharma
Ohja

pretty much the same team i would say.

So you don't see any major retirements before then? I guess they'll want to revenge the current series if at all possible.

 

[centurymaker]

So you don't see any major retirements before then? I guess they'll want to revenge the current series if at all possible.

yea they'll probably be pumped up for that series.

 

[Cevno]

Should get England to play some tests when they come in october tbh.

In any case some overreactions in this thread. The major problem is bowling without Zaheer on strong overseas outside SC tours and that's the issue that needs to be sorted out first.

As for Fletcher wasn't convinced at all my his appointment because the Indian players need a friend type coach rather than a master to tell them something. Though having said that bit too early to say anything conclusively about him right now.

 

[GIMH]

Cevno, is your last paragraph not indicative of a serious problem with the culture within the Indian team? Similar to the England football team perhaps?

 

[smash84]

GIMH I don't know how you can say which culture is problematic especially in this case? I don't see what is wrong if people don't like a bossy character around?

 

[Cevno]

Cevno, is your last paragraph not indicative of a serious problem with the culture within the Indian team? Similar to the England football team perhaps?

Nah!! Don't think so.
The problem with the English football team is that they are stars and don't need the English team to get to that stage and are in some cases not motivated enough to stay and play there.

In the Indian team don't think the motivation to play for the country and perform is a problem at all, but as a group comprising of some big big stars being controlled and dictated to may be. Different groups have different dynamics and work differently, so don't see a major issue with it and Kirsten showed very well how to work with it.
What Kirsten did very very well was gained the trust of the of the players pretty quickly after Chappel had divided the team and he became one of the members of the team rather than a head of some sorts. Every player had a certain respect for him(Whether it be a junior or a senior member) and were all praises for him every time and at the same time were pretty open and friendly with him.That and his superb work ethic with him being the first and last in training sessions meant that Tendulkar to Saha all could discuss anything with him if it needed correction and were willing to listen to him.
Fletcher will need to replicate that kind of atmosphere and role to fit into the current dynamics to add something and am not sure about that or his tactical astuteness being something spectacular to overcome not doing that.

 

[GIMH]

GIMH I don't know how you can say which culture is problematic especially in this case? I don't see what is wrong if people don't like a bossy character around?

The fact that players need a 'matey' character. I dunno the specifics obviously, but I think a balance is important. Being a complete authoritarian isn't the answer but neither is slapping the players on the arse and being one of the lads. Each dressing room is different though so maybe I'm reading too much into it, I just took Cevno to mean that the players won't tolerate a figure of seniority.

 

[GotSpin]

Maybe some of the Indian seniors should suck it up. I think it's pretty clear some of them could do with a bit of advice

 

[Stapel]

In any case some overreactions in this thread. The major problem is bowling without Zaheer on strong overseas outside SC tours and that's the issue that needs to be sorted out first.

As said by mnay before, Zaheer missing is a great blow, but imho, India's batting has so far not been up to English bowling.

 

[smash84]

awta.......the indian batting has been below par and many times it seems it has been more a lack of application from the batsmen than anything else

 

[Xuhaib]

yeah the Praveen's and the Ishant have been dicked by the Laxman's and the Sachin's this is not a Windies quartet that will blow away teams they need batsman to put runs on the board to apply pressure this is what has been missing for India in this series.