Flem274*
123/5
no, he's just included in the rest. i cbf writing the name of every good bowler. he's ahead of anderson outside england for sure.
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Rate these almost-great fast bowlers
- Thread starter subshakerz
- Start date
Flem274*
123/5
andersons bloody lucky he plays for england who spam tests like they're 90s jamodis tbh.
he takes 250 wickets @ 29 for south africa and everyone respects him but he doesn't get the opportunity to correct his first 4 years.
the test spam also prolongs english suffering (and whining) when they have to use a kookaburra or leave home.
he takes 250 wickets @ 29 for south africa and everyone respects him but he doesn't get the opportunity to correct his first 4 years.
the test spam also prolongs english suffering (and whining) when they have to use a kookaburra or leave home.
Flem274*
123/5
i was tempted to make a comparison to another late bloomer who even has to bowl with a kookaburra on the mean nasty anti-english pitches but im being nice tonight.
Flem274*
123/5
who cares, the duke ball turns jesse ryder into a genuine new ball bowler at county level and makes matt henry akin to the wrath of god.
i troll, but the kookaburra gets a lot of stick, not unjustly, and i find it harder and harder to take the sticky undies for the duke ball seriously when you look at what it can turn a batsman who bowls a little or a nearly test standard bowler into. the duke has its place and is a strong advantage for the english test side, but it hurts their ability to tour and arguably stunts the development of their junior bowlers.
Flem274*
123/5
southee's on the honours board. im too lazy to look up the rest. better than the english records in nz, with exponentially less crying about how unfair test cricket overseas is.
we won our last test there with a bj ton and some ronchi biffing so someone must have taken some wickets.
we won our last test there with a bj ton and some ronchi biffing so someone must have taken some wickets.
Starfighter
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
I think the pitches have as much to do with Jesse Ryder being a acceptable bowler in CC than the ball. England has always been the land of the 125 km/h seamer for a reason, especially in Div 2 where Henry is playing. And I must say, I don't see this as an argument against the Dukes ball either.
Flem274*
123/5
my view is heavily influenced by the conversion of our domestic pitches from county division 2 standards of club bowler enabling to decks that resemble test cricket a bit more.
if nz still had early 00s domestic pitches, boult, wagner and ferguson wouldn't exist because they wouldn't need to do what they do to make the test side. the conditions differences are and were very apparent in the domestic careers of 'pretending to be a batsman' era franklin, jesse ryder and currently matt henry.
the trade off might be worth it if county conditions and the duke produced a line of openers and middle order batsmen for england, but it isn't. arguably it's because riding your luck for 20 minutes against some fat bloke trundling in on a green deck before you nick off isn't good preparation for test cricket.
Flem274*
123/5
inb4 gas says 'what about mcewan?'
(eden park is a road and lockie or jamieson is at the other end)
Your refusal to look them up is clear evidence you accept you have massively contradicted yourself with your comments
Flem274*
123/5
i don't think you know what evidence is, but i do know you overestimate my ability to care or do even small efforts.
stephen
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Top 2010s bowling attack.
Steyn (59 tests, 267 wickets, average 22.29)
Rabada (43 tests, 197 wickets, average 22.95)
Cummins (30 tests, 143 wickets, average 21.82)
Ashwin (71 tests, 365 wickets, average 25.43)
Cummins is contentious because he basically only played for three years. But given his outstanding average, performance in India, England and Australia and doing most of it at first change, he gets the nod. He's also now taken more wickets than Harris and has more than half the wickets of Philander in the same time period. Philander is unlucky to miss out but was IMO the third choice South African quick and has had more favourable conditions than most bowlers in the list.
Spinners is contentious. Lyon has been excellent in parts, as has Ashwin and Jadeja. Ashwin probably gets the nod due to his best being outstanding and he's a decent batsman to boot. Even though right now I'd take Jadeja over any other spin bowler, I could easily see arguments for any of the three. Herath is also a very strong contender. IMO he's had wickets even more favourable than Ashwin and Jadeja though and I think that tips the balance to those two. But still, he is right up there and I could see people picking him.
Picking just the top 3 wicket taking pace bowlers and top wicket taking spinner for the decade gives you:
Anderson (107 tests, 436 wickets, average 24.10)
Broad (114 tests, 412 wickets, average 27.47)
Southee (67 tests, 269 wickets, average 28.01)
Lyon (96 tests, 390 wickets, average 31.58)
Steyn (59 tests, 267 wickets, average 22.29)
Rabada (43 tests, 197 wickets, average 22.95)
Cummins (30 tests, 143 wickets, average 21.82)
Ashwin (71 tests, 365 wickets, average 25.43)
Cummins is contentious because he basically only played for three years. But given his outstanding average, performance in India, England and Australia and doing most of it at first change, he gets the nod. He's also now taken more wickets than Harris and has more than half the wickets of Philander in the same time period. Philander is unlucky to miss out but was IMO the third choice South African quick and has had more favourable conditions than most bowlers in the list.
Spinners is contentious. Lyon has been excellent in parts, as has Ashwin and Jadeja. Ashwin probably gets the nod due to his best being outstanding and he's a decent batsman to boot. Even though right now I'd take Jadeja over any other spin bowler, I could easily see arguments for any of the three. Herath is also a very strong contender. IMO he's had wickets even more favourable than Ashwin and Jadeja though and I think that tips the balance to those two. But still, he is right up there and I could see people picking him.
Picking just the top 3 wicket taking pace bowlers and top wicket taking spinner for the decade gives you:
Anderson (107 tests, 436 wickets, average 24.10)
Broad (114 tests, 412 wickets, average 27.47)
Southee (67 tests, 269 wickets, average 28.01)
Lyon (96 tests, 390 wickets, average 31.58)
StephenZA
Hall of Fame Member
It does surprise me how often people think that because you are bowling in England it somehow lessens your ability to be a WC bowler. SA is pretty much the most difficult place to bat in the world for the last 2 decades at least, and yet SA continues to produce some of the best fast bowlers in that time. Its not like the pitches do all the work. You still have to get it right as the bowler and there are some pretty flat pitches in England.
I made the effort to look for you, and southees average in England actually jumps to 34 whereas boults average comes down to 23.
'Evidence' that just because you are using a dukes ball in England doesn't automatically turn a 125 trundler into a qaulity bowler