Rank the Test playing nations in order of historical greatness

[OverratedSanity]

Irritating how they've been removed from history in a lot of writing, typically by those talking about the side under Lloyd (Fire In Babylon is probably the worst offender here)

Oh God yes. The film was so disrespectful of that 60s team. There was a whole 5 minute segment where they're written off as "entertaining losers".

 

[silentstriker]

Yeah I really liked that movie but that was super annoying.

 

[SillyCowCorner1]

In order of my exposure to the game starting from when I was a toddler:

West Indies
India
Pakistan
Australia
England
Sri Lanka
New Zealand
Zimbabwe
South Africa
Bangladesh
**
Ireland
Afghanistan

 

[WindieWeathers]

I'm so glad people have mentioned the WI team of the 60s, who stood up to the two "super powers" of those days and made significant inroads into their dominance. And let's be honest we were good in the 70s, 80s and a lot of the 90s too.

I also think we need to take into account the populations and financial strength of some of these sides. We've always had our backs against the wall in regards to those two things and yet we've produced perhaps the greatest test side that ever played and we've also won several trophies too.

Anyway

Aus
West Indies
England
Pakistan
India
South Africa
Sri-lanka
New Zealand
Zimbabwe
Bangladesh

Would be my order at the moment but tbh apart from the top two it could be anything below that.

 

[Slifer]

Australia
England
Windies
South Africa
India
Pakistan
New Zealand
Sri Lanka
Bangladesh
Zimbabwe


I'm, seeing a lot of 1=Australia, 2=West Indies, 3=England. Can anyone really justify West Indies being above England? Historical greatness! England invented cricket. For the greatest part of Test History they were the best side, except, 'Australia'. West Indies were only dominant for two decades. The rest of the time they were crap. 90's aside, I don't think England were ever 'crap'. Anyone feel like naming best XIs for Australia minus 33-48, 95-05 and 73-83, England minus whatever their best three decades were and Windies minus their best three decades?

WI have only been crap post 2000. Up until that point they had a better winning percentage than all other teams barring Australia if memory serves me correctly. WI were very very good during the 60s as previously. As a matter of fact the only team that historically had the wood on the WI consistent ly were Australia.

Therefore ranking WI ahead of England in terms of historical greatness is not that farfetched. Do some research before making ill-researched comments.

 

[Slifer]

Bit harsh to call the Windies teams outside of the 70's 80's "crap" The three W's, Black Bradman, the Spin Twins, Big Wes & the Prince might have a problem with that.

But if you were to pick a ATG Windies team minus players from their most successful decades (50s, 70's, 80's) it probably wouldn't stack up to an Aus ATG team minus players from their best 3 decades.

I don't see how you pick any team minus players from their most successful decades. Why? Because most of their careers start and extend past particular decades.

But for the sake of argument excluding players from the 60s, 70s and 80s you get:

Gayle (2000)
Stollmeyer (50s)
Headley (30s)
Lara (90s)
Weekes (50s)
Chanders (90s)
Walcott+ (50s)
Ambrose (90s)
Bishop (90s)
Martindale (30s)
Ramadhin (50s)

Now I'd like to see all time Oz and ENG team minus their most successful decades.

 

[mr_mister]

50s Windies not 60s Windies. Try again ha

 

[Slifer]

50s Windies not 60s Windies. Try again ha

I think it's already been established that the WI best decades were: 60s, 70s and 80s. Therefore 50s players included. For sake of argument if we used 60s instead you'd have the following players available: Sobers, Hall, Gibbs, Griffith, Kanhai, Nurse, Butcher, Hunte Collie Smith, Gilchrist etc.

 

[mr_mister]

Yeah fair enough I didn't read enough of the thread

Would prefer the 3 Ws and the spin twins to the 60s contingent Sobers or no Sobers but I guess it isn't important

Not sure why you included Collie in that list of 60s players though considering he died in 59

Or am I reading the post wrong

 

[Slifer]

I'd say Walcott and Weekes are more 50s players for me I don't know y. Worrell kinda straddled both decades but played more in the 50s I think. Collie Smith was an error.

 

[DriveClub]

I don't see how you pick any team minus players from their most successful decades. Why? Because most of their careers start and extend past particular decades.

But for the sake of argument excluding players from the 60s, 70s and 80s you get:

Gayle (2000)
Stollmeyer (50s)
Headley (30s)
Lara (90s)
Weekes (50s)
Chanders (90s)
Walcott+ (50s)
Ambrose (90s)
Bishop (90s)
Martindale (30s)
Ramadhin (50s)

Now I'd like to see all time Oz and ENG team minus their most successful decades.

Walsh also more a 90s player

 

[jimmy101]

I don't see how you pick any team minus players from their most successful decades. Why? Because most of their careers start and extend past particular decades.

But for the sake of argument excluding players from the 60s, 70s and 80s you get:

Gayle (2000)
Stollmeyer (50s)
Headley (30s)
Lara (90s)
Weekes (50s)
Chanders (90s)
Walcott+ (50s)
Ambrose (90s)
Bishop (90s)
Martindale (30s)
Ramadhin (50s)

Now I'd like to see all time Oz and ENG team minus their most successful decades.

That's a fine team Slifer. Let me add a few more players to turn into a full touring squad.

Clifford Roach, Learie Constantine, Collie Smith, Denis Atkinson, Courtney Walsh, George Francis, Alf Valentine


And I'll attempt to select an Aussie team minus players from their best three decades (from the 30's onwards, for the purposes of comparison to WI).

AUS w/o 90's, 00's, 40's

Simpson (60s)
Lawry (60s)
G Chappell (70s)
Border (80s)
Smith (2010s)
Benaud * (50s)
Marsh + (70s)
Lillee (70s)
O'Reilly (30s)
Thomson (70s)
Alderman (80s)

Subs: David Warner, Jack Fingleton, Ian Chappell, Dean Jones, Doug Walters, Bob Cowper, Mitchell Johnson, Graham McKenzie, Clarrie Grimmett

No Harvey, Bradman, Miller or Lindwall cause they played in the 1948 "Invincibles" team. I'm probably missing someone obvious here.

 

[Slifer]

Walsh also more a 90s player

Agreed but I can see someone arguing that he debuted so early in the 1980s (1984 I believe).

 

[Slifer]

That's a fine team Slifer. Let me add a few more players to turn into a full touring squad.

Clifford Roach, Learie Constantine, Collie Smith, Denis Atkinson, Courtney Walsh, George Francis, Alf Valentine


And I'll attempt to select an Aussie team minus players from their best three decades (from the 30's onwards, for the purposes of comparison to WI).

AUS w/o 90's, 00's, 40's

Simpson (60s)
Lawry (60s)
G Chappell (70s)
Border (80s)
Smith (2010s)
Benaud * (50s)
Marsh + (70s)
Lillee (70s)
O'Reilly (30s)
Thomson (70s)
Alderman (80s)

Subs: David Warner, Jack Fingleton, Ian Chappell, Dean Jones, Doug Walters, Bob Cowper, Mitchell Johnson, Graham McKenzie, Clarrie Grimmett

No Harvey, Bradman, Miller or Lindwall cause they played in the 1948 "Invincibles" team. I'm probably missing someone obvious here.

Excellent team also and IMO both this team and WI team stack up well against each other.

 

[Howe_zat]

That's a fine team Slifer. Let me add a few more players to turn into a full touring squad.

Clifford Roach, Learie Constantine, Collie Smith, Denis Atkinson, Courtney Walsh, George Francis, Alf Valentine


And I'll attempt to select an Aussie team minus players from their best three decades (from the 30's onwards, for the purposes of comparison to WI).

AUS w/o 90's, 00's, 40's

Simpson (60s)
Lawry (60s)
G Chappell (70s)
Border (80s)
Smith (2010s)
Benaud * (50s)
Marsh + (70s)
Lillee (70s)
O'Reilly (30s)
Thomson (70s)
Alderman (80s)

Subs: David Warner, Jack Fingleton, Ian Chappell, Dean Jones, Doug Walters, Bob Cowper, Mitchell Johnson, Graham McKenzie, Clarrie Grimmett

No Harvey, Bradman, Miller or Lindwall cause they played in the 1948 "Invincibles" team. I'm probably missing someone obvious here.

Alan Davidson

 

[morgieb]

That's a fine team Slifer. Let me add a few more players to turn into a full touring squad.

Clifford Roach, Learie Constantine, Collie Smith, Denis Atkinson, Courtney Walsh, George Francis, Alf Valentine


And I'll attempt to select an Aussie team minus players from their best three decades (from the 30's onwards, for the purposes of comparison to WI).

AUS w/o 90's, 00's, 40's

Simpson (60s)
Lawry (60s)
G Chappell (70s)
Border (80s)
Smith (2010s)
Benaud * (50s)
Marsh + (70s)
Lillee (70s)
O'Reilly (30s)
Thomson (70s)
Alderman (80s)

Subs: David Warner, Jack Fingleton, Ian Chappell, Dean Jones, Doug Walters, Bob Cowper, Mitchell Johnson, Graham McKenzie, Clarrie Grimmett

No Harvey, Bradman, Miller or Lindwall cause they played in the 1948 "Invincibles" team. I'm probably missing someone obvious here.

Davidson should be there.

Wouldn't bat Benaud 6 either. Put Macarthy there maybe? Also means Chappell doesn't have to bat 3 which I doubt he ever did.

EDIT: Well ****, I need to learn how to read. Walters then.

 

[AndrewB]

That's a fine team Slifer. Let me add a few more players to turn into a full touring squad.

Clifford Roach, Learie Constantine, Collie Smith, Denis Atkinson, Courtney Walsh, George Francis, Alf Valentine


And I'll attempt to select an Aussie team minus players from their best three decades (from the 30's onwards, for the purposes of comparison to WI).

AUS w/o 90's, 00's, 40's

Simpson (60s)
Lawry (60s)
G Chappell (70s)
Border (80s)
Smith (2010s)
Benaud * (50s)
Marsh + (70s)
Lillee (70s)
O'Reilly (30s)
Thomson (70s)
Alderman (80s)

Subs: David Warner, Jack Fingleton, Ian Chappell, Dean Jones, Doug Walters, Bob Cowper, Mitchell Johnson, Graham McKenzie, Clarrie Grimmett

No Harvey, Bradman, Miller or Lindwall cause they played in the 1948 "Invincibles" team. I'm probably missing someone obvious here.

I'd rule out the 70s Aussies rather than the 90s Aussies (although it then gets a bit complicated regarding whether McGrath and Warne are pickable).

 

[AndrewB]

I don't see how you pick any team minus players from their most successful decades. Why? Because most of their careers start and extend past particular decades.

Similarly it's sometimes misleading to talk about teams being "very good" in a certain decade, as if they were uniformly good throughout: West Indies were very good in the mid-60s, but started and finished the decade losing to England and Australia, and they had a miserable start to the 70s (the relevant chapter in "Living for Cricket" by Clive Lloyd is "West Indies in the doldrums"). England were very good for much of the 50s, but still got thumped by WI and Aus in 1950-1 (and by Aus again in 1958-9).

 

[jimmy101]

Yep, I acknowledge Davo should be in, probably for Thommo I guess.

Walters is a good shout, but I find the Benaud/O'Reilly spin duo to be an exciting prospect.

Indeed, Chappell's Australian's were kings of the roost during the mid-70's. But they entered the decade having lost to SA away and then England at home, and then WSC tore the team apart.

If we really wanted to narrow this down, perhaps it might be appropriate to pick three 5-year blocks, which coincide with the peaks experienced by respective national teams, and rule out any player that played during that time.

For Australia it might be 1948 - 1952, 1972 - 1976 and 1999 - 2003.

 

[Slifer]

Or maybe the decade when they had their respective highest winning percentage?!?