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Political Correctness Gone Mad

harsh.ag

Hall of Fame Member
Encouraging any understanding of the Mediterranean aspects of western civilization is good imo :happy:

Plus appreciating history from a group identity pov is not in the same ballpark as using that worldview to guilt people in the present!
 

vogue

International Vice-Captain
I can’t believe people believe that sort of guff. And the people who write it..??? Don’t know who’s worse tbh.
 

hendrix

Hall of Fame Member
Encouraging any understanding of the Mediterranean aspects of western civilization is good imo :happy:
Pretending that the Byzantine empire was anything more than a thimble in terms of contributions to science, arts and politics compared to earlier (read: pre-Christian) Mediterranean "Western civilisation" would be grossly distorting reality. You could probably read half a page of Plato and find more insight.

Plus appreciating history from a group identity pov is not in the same ballpark as using that worldview to guilt people in the present!
It's glorification of a historically very repressive, regressive society in an attempt to advance the cause of another, modern, repressive, regressive political movement.
 
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harsh.ag

Hall of Fame Member
It's glorification of a historically very repressive, regressive society in an attempt to advance the cause of another, modern, repressive, regressive political movement.
I really don't want to ascribe such motives that easily. Even if the Australian conservatives as an organization could be described fairly thus (I don't know anything about them), the email on its own cannot.
 

hendrix

Hall of Fame Member
I really don't want to ascribe such motives that easily. Even if the Australian conservatives as an organization could be described fairly thus (I don't know anything about them), the email on its own cannot.
Bull****.

"Mourn/commiserate the fall of Constantinople and the Islamic takeover of its heritage."

That is a very, very deliberate sentence. Look at those word choices.
 

harsh.ag

Hall of Fame Member
Bull****.

"Mourn/commiserate the fall of Constantinople and the Islamic takeover of its heritage."

That is a very, very deliberate sentence. Look at those word choices.
Sure. I think there is a nuanced debate to be had about whether the Islamic takeover was a "bad" thing or not from a western perspective, but it's likely that is not what these guys are after (again I don't know anything about these guys) and I agree about that.

But that doesn't mean that people who see this email are going to automatically start disliking Muslims and Islam as it is currently manifested in their area or other areas.

I can mourn the fall of India to the British empire without hating current British people.

I don't think most casual "Hindu nationalists" hate the current British either. Although I could be wrong about that.
 

hendrix

Hall of Fame Member
Sure. I think there is a nuanced debate to be had about whether the Islamic takeover was a "bad" thing or not from a western perspective, but it's likely that is not what these guys are after (again I don't know anything about these guys) and I agree about that.

But that doesn't mean that people who see this email are going to automatically start disliking Muslims and Islam as it is currently manifested in their area or other areas.

I can mourn the fall of India to the British empire without hating current British people.

I don't think most casual "Hindu nationalists" hate the current British either. Although I could be wrong about that.
I'm not even saying it's bad because it gets people to hate muslims (although I'm sure it could do that as it does place the blame on Muslims). There are thousands and thousands of empires that have fallen. It's the singular glorification of this past supposedly great empire - which apparently was only great because it was Christian. T

Next they'll be mourning the fall of the British Raj.

Stupid ideas are stupid and dangerous.
 

harsh.ag

Hall of Fame Member
I don't get that, honestly.

Everyone glorifies things in a singular manner all the time. It's basically the great human past time :happy:

You relate to some things because of who you are and I don't think it's at all bad for Christians to be singularly interested in the Byzantine Empire, its achievements (scant as though might have been compared to other empires), and the fall of Constantinople.

It was the first time Christianity was a state religion, right?
 

Uppercut

Request Your Custom Title Now!
I don't get that, honestly.

Everyone glorifies things in a singular manner all the time. It's basically the great human past time :happy:

You relate to some things because of who you are and I don't think it's at all bad for Christians to be singularly interested in the Byzantine Empire, its achievements (scant as though might have been compared to other empires), and the fall of Constantinople.

It was the first time Christianity was a state religion, right?
You’re being naive and I can’t tell if you’re doing it on purpose or not. They’ve deliberately picked out and hammed up a fairly obscure episode from history to help them build and sell a ‘Christians vs Muslims in an epic ancient battle for the children’s souls’ story. Like, they wouldn’t even deny that that’s what they’re doing.
 

harsh.ag

Hall of Fame Member
Look, I don't know what this organization is about. I will take it that they use material like this in that way.
 

Flem274*

123/5
Appropriating the true fall of Rome for your racist little movement is probably the least Roman thing you can do short of not being ridiculously superstitious, stubborn and knowing the law books inside out. They really didn't give a rats what colour you were.
You’re being naive and I can’t tell if you’re doing it on purpose or not. They’ve deliberately picked out and hammed up a fairly obscure episode from history to help them build and sell a ‘Christians vs Muslims in an epic ancient battle for the children’s souls’ story. Like, they wouldn’t even deny that that’s what they’re doing.
obscure?

those walls were invincible. The Eastern Roman Empire clung on to their civilization decades longer than they had any right to because you could not breach the walls of the greatest city in Europe, and probably the world from a purely defensible pov. Attila the Hun himself saw the city and didn't even try. It took the biggest cannon ever made and some **** leaving a door open for Mehmet to finally get inside.
 

harsh.ag

Hall of Fame Member
Yeah, the fall of Constantinople is not an obscure event by any stretch :happy:

Even in India it is taught in some schools.
 

ankitj

International Coach
I'm not even saying it's bad because it gets people to hate muslims (although I'm sure it could do that as it does place the blame on Muslims). There are thousands and thousands of empires that have fallen. It's the singular glorification of this past supposedly great empire - which apparently was only great because it was Christian. T

Next they'll be mourning the fall of the British Raj.

Stupid ideas are stupid and dangerous.
Would you say that a group calling for mourning/commiserating killings of native American is putting the blame on Whites and inciting hate against them?
 

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