***Official*** South Africa in New Zealand 2017

[StephenZA]

gawd it's so weird to divide people up like that. probably we shouldn't go into the quota debate here but sheesh

I will say that the Indian/Coloured is a more combined... the issue is the number of black players. Just keeping ahead of targets at the moment. But this is probably not the thread for this discussion.

 

[Marius]

gawd it's so weird to divide people up like that. probably we shouldn't go into the quota debate here but sheesh

Yup. One of the biggest mistakes the ANC government is making is continuing ti use these racial categories.

A new law is being drafted which will make it necessary to disclose your race and *** when buying property.

I also used to be part of the Lions (not sure if you know, it's a charity organisation, similar to Rotary etc).

One year we were looking for a project and we thought we'd supply stationery to disadvantaged kids at the beginning of the school year. We found a company that would be willing to sponsor us, but they said we had to guarantee that only black kids would benefit, which would improve the company's black economic empowerment rating. I told the club we should tell them to shove their sponsorship, and we should help whoever needs help. It probably would have been black kids who would have benefitted (we hadn't identified people to give the stationery to yet) but I thought it obscene that we were instructed what the race of kids had to be that we wanted to help.

The club agreed with me and we never took the up the offer from the company.

 

[Marius]

I will say that the Indian/Coloured is a more combined... the issue is the number of black players. Just keeping ahead of targets at the moment. But this is probably not the thread for this discussion.

Overall POCs is also the issue, have to have at least two black players and overall six POCs.

 

[StephenZA]

Overall POCs is also the issue, have to have at least two black players and overall six POCs.

Overall we have never had a POC problem, been there or there about, been many good and great deserved players of colour... problem is they are not colour enough anymore. Terrifying statement.

 

[StephenZA]

Yup. One of the biggest mistakes the ANC government is making is continuing ti use these racial categories.

A new law is being drafted which will make it necessary to disclose your race and *** when buying property.

I also used to be part of the Lions (not sure if you know, it's a charity organisation, similar to Rotary etc).

One year we were looking for a project and we thought we'd supply stationery to disadvantaged kids at the beginning of the school year. We found a company that would be willing to sponsor us, but they said we had to guarantee that only black kids would benefit, which would improve the company's black economic empowerment rating. I told the club we should tell them to shove their sponsorship, and we should help whoever needs help. It probably would have been black kids who would have benefitted (we hadn't identified people to give the stationery to yet) but I thought it obscene that we were instructed what the race of kids had to be that we wanted to help.

The club agreed with me and we never took the up the offer from the company.

What you say is true and terrifying atm in SA... those laws being drafted are scary, our constitution is the only thing keeping our head above water. But what you mention here is only the tip of the ice-berg of problems that SA faces if it does not sort itself out soon on many bigger issues. But this is definitely not the place for this discussion.....

 

[hendrix]

Yup. One of the biggest mistakes the ANC government is making is continuing ti use these racial categories.

A new law is being drafted which will make it necessary to disclose your race and *** when buying property.

I also used to be part of the Lions (not sure if you know, it's a charity organisation, similar to Rotary etc).

One year we were looking for a project and we thought we'd supply stationery to disadvantaged kids at the beginning of the school year. We found a company that would be willing to sponsor us, but they said we had to guarantee that only black kids would benefit, which would improve the company's black economic empowerment rating. I told the club we should tell them to shove their sponsorship, and we should help whoever needs help. It probably would have been black kids who would have benefitted (we hadn't identified people to give the stationery to yet) but I thought it obscene that we were instructed what the race of kids had to be that we wanted to help.

The club agreed with me and we never took the up the offer from the company.

this is ****ed up.

 

[Dendarii]

Just updated my info - this is from the ODI against Ireland up until this last Test match.

RACE WATCH AS ORDERED BY OBERFUHRER FIKILE MBALULA

Average black players per game: 2.1 (most 4, least one)
Average coloured players per game: 2.2 (most 4, least 1)
Average Indian players per game (assuming Tahir counts as an Indian for these purposes): 1.8 (most 3, least 0)
Average white players per game: 4.9 (most 6, least 3)

Average POCs overall in the season: 6.1.

I get the same figures, so that confirms that the quota is being met. It's heavily dependent on Rabada's fitness though, which hasn't been a problem yet, but there's no guarantee that will last.

The Census classifies people as "Indian or Asian", so that would presumably cover Tahir. Although as StephenZA pointed out, for quota purposes they get counted together with the coloured players.

 

[Marius]

I get the same figures, so that confirms that the quota is being met. It's heavily dependent on Rabada's fitness though, which hasn't been a problem yet, but there's no guarantee that will last.

The Census classifies people as "Indian or Asian", so that would presumably cover Tahir. Although as StephenZA pointed out, for quota purposes they get counted together with the coloured players.

Thing about Tahir is he was born overseas and only came to SA in the early 2000s (I think).

According to the Employment Equity Act only people who were citizens prior to 1994 are eligible for EE and BEE (thus counting out Zimbabweans, Nigerians Indians etc who came here after 1994). Thus, does Tahir count towards the quota?

Which also shows you how pathetic counting people by race is.

 

[StephenZA]

Thing about Tahir is he was born overseas and only came to SA in the early 2000s (I think).

According to the Employment Equity Act only people who were citizens prior to 1994 are eligible for EE and BEE (thus counting out Zimbabweans, Nigerians Indians etc who came here after 1994). Thus, does Tahir count towards the quota?

Which also shows you how pathetic counting people by race is.

He does.... but some of the ANC big wigs have commented in the past regarding this, but SA cricket has been politically savvy enough to keep them happy and cricket is nit enough of a political trigger point for them to care.

 

[Marius]

He does.... but some of the ANC big wigs have commented in the past regarding this, but SA cricket has been politically savvy enough to keep them happy and cricket is nit enough of a political trigger point for them to care.

They've done it with Beast Mtawarira too.

 

[Dendarii]

Thing about Tahir is he was born overseas and only came to SA in the early 2000s (I think).

According to the Employment Equity Act only people who were citizens prior to 1994 are eligible for EE and BEE (thus counting out Zimbabweans, Nigerians Indians etc who came here after 1994). Thus, does Tahir count towards the quota?

Which also shows you how pathetic counting people by race is.

If Tahir wouldn't count due to not being a citizen prior to 1994 then technically Rabada and Phehlukwayo shouldn't either as they also weren't citizens then...

 

[Zinzan]

Just updated my info - this is from the ODI against Ireland up until this last Test match.

RACE WATCH AS ORDERED BY OBERFUHRER FIKILE MBALULA

Average black players per game: 2.1 (most 4, least one)
Average coloured players per game: 2.2 (most 4, least 1)
Average Indian players per game (assuming Tahir counts as an Indian for these purposes): 1.8 (most 3, least 0)
Average white players per game: 4.9 (most 6, least 3)

Average POCs overall in the season: 6.1.

I really feel for South African cricket fans. you'll rarely even get close to ever seeing your best XI on the park.

Suppose there's some consolation that you'll probably always send out a competitive side regardless just due to the talent of some of your blokes, but still kind of sucks.

 

[Marius]

If Tahir wouldn't count due to not being a citizen prior to 1994 then technically Rabada and Phehlukwayo shouldn't either as they also weren't citizens then...

I had that thought, but I just looked it up, and it seems I misremembered.

The Act says:

'designated groups' means black people, women and people with disabilities who –
(a) are citizens of the Republic of South Africa by birth or descent; or
(b) became citizens of the Republic of South Africa by naturalisation –
(i) before 27 April 1994; or
(ii) after 26 April 1994, who would have been entitled to acquire citizenship by naturalisation prior to that date but were precluded by Apartheid policies;”

So, Rabada etc would qualify, and Tahir possibly too, depending on what the citizenship regulations around Indians were under apartheid. I know at one stage Indians (no matter how long their family had been SA) were considered 'aliens', but this may have changed as apartheid policy loosened.

 

[Shady Slim]

don't want to to derail the thread but what would a south african side without the quota look like? like would it be exceedingly different?

 

[StephenZA]

I had that thought, but I just looked it up, and it seems I misremembered.

The Act says:



So, Rabada etc would qualify, and Tahir possibly too, depending on what the citizenship regulations around Indians were under apartheid. I know at one stage Indians (no matter how long their family had been SA) were considered 'aliens', but this may have changed as apartheid policy loosened.

Indians were always excluded... only the Chinese became the same as 'whites' in mid 80`s or so...

 

[StephenZA]

don't want to to derail the thread but what would a south african side without the quota look like? like would it be exceedingly different?

Bavuma/Duminy out.. Rillee/de Bruyn in... probably thats it... maybe Rabada would have got into team later.

 

[Shady Slim]

thank frick for the quotas bc it means someone with a name as hideous as rillee is not on my screen

na jk it's a horrible situation and i pity youu

 

[Zinzan]

don't want to to derail the thread but what would a south african side without the quota look like? like would it be exceedingly different?

Lol, I just posted that I think they would in the best side in the world thread.

 

[Zinzan]

Bavuma/Duminy out.. Rillee/de Bruyn in... probably thats it... maybe Rabada would have got into team later.

Not sure if Steyn being fit again would cause another white player to miss out on his return would it?

 

[Marius]

Indians were always excluded... only the Chinese became the same as 'whites' in mid 80`s or so...

Nope, I think it was only Taiwanese and Japanese businessmen who were considered 'white'. Chinese whose families came here in the early 20th century to work on the mines were also discriminated against (not to the same extent as black people, but still).

According to Wiki, the SA Institute of Race Relations said this about Chinese in the '60s:

No group is treated so inconsistently under South Africa's race legislation. Under the Immorality Act they are Non-White. The Group Areas Act says they are Coloured, subsection Chinese ... They are frequently mistaken for Japanese in public and have generally used White buses, hotels, cinemas and restaurants. But in Pretoria, only the consul-general's staff may use White buses .. Their future appears insecure and unstable. Because of past and present misery under South African laws, and what seems like more to come in the future, many Chinese are emigrating. Like many Coloured people who are leaving the country, they seem to favour Canada. Through humiliation and statutory discrimination South Africa is frustrating and alienating what should be a prized community.