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***Official*** India in South Africa 2021-22

cricketsavant

U19 12th Man
Wtf is this idiocy? This is unsubstantiated bull****. You've got nothing but "things were better in the old days for Indian bowling" (because we're all idiots who don't see how this Indian bowling lineup is superior through their records), "here are some ATG/ATVG attacks" (as if their existence somehow means this lineup isn't great) and "oh SA had better batters in 2018" (okay?).

No need for you to try and pretend that this Indian bowling lineup isn't great, their record speaks for themselves. And it wasn't like Test Master said they were ATGs either, so don't pull that bell either.
Reported :thumbdown
 

Test Master

Cricket Spectator
Pivotal time in Rabada's career, looks a shadow of his former self.

Disappointing performances in the subcontinent and at home of recent times.

With his 50th test looming, will be interesting to see if he steps up.
 

Spark

Global Moderator
Pivotal time in Rabada's career, looks a shadow of his former self.

Disappointing performances in the subcontinent and at home of recent times.

With his 50th test looming, will be interesting to see if he steps up.
He still has his moments but he's been consistently off his early standard ever since, ironically, the infamous Aus series IMO
 

cricketsavant

U19 12th Man
Pivotal time in Rabada's career, looks a shadow of his former self.

Disappointing performances in the subcontinent and at home of recent times.

With his 50th test looming, will be interesting to see if he steps up.
He currently has 13 wickets this series, and is averaging 22 in the last couple years. His pace is off and he doesn't quite have the impact but I don't think he is a shadow anymore.

A lot of fast bowlers go through this type of period mid career, he will learn to be smarter as his pace and physicality starts to drop off.
 

karan_fromthestands

State Captain
People who are saying that SA's batting is weak, I hope you have seen all the games in the series and not going by HLs or scorecards.

Elgar is absolute class. And Keegan Petersen and Bavuma have looked really solid. Petersen has looked the best so far in the series, his batting looks very impressive for someone who is so early in his international career.

They need to sort out Markram's batting position and number 7 batsman, other than that, the batting looks very promising.
 
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Xix2565

International Debutant
People who are saying that SA's batting is weak, I hope you have seen all the games in the series and not going by HLs or scorecards.

Elgar is absolute class. And Keegan Petersen and Bavuma have looked really solid. Markram as an opener isn't working, and moving him to number 4 might give better results.

Kyle Verreynne also comes with a strong FC record and it showed in his batting, don't think de Kock's retirement will cause a lot of problems. Only real issue is their lower order, Marco at 7 just doesn't work, needs to be replaced by a proper batting all-rounder.
I did see the games, and they did struggle for 3 innings until they finally broke through. As solid as they've looked, it's not like they've run away with the game all that often.
 

Test Master

Cricket Spectator
He currently has 13 wickets this series, and is averaging 22 in the last couple years. His pace is off and he doesn't quite have the impact but I don't think he is a shadow anymore.

A lot of fast bowlers go through this type of period mid career, he will learn to be smarter as his pace and physicality starts to drop off.
I disagree on certain aspects. Although the numbers haven't been bad. The presence and pace has been off. He is at a stage where fast bowlers hit their prime which 25 to 27. Seems like his dip has hit sooner than expected. The worrying thing for me is the drop in pace from 145 - 151 to 136 to 139?.... He has lost the fear factor and confidence. His body language says it all. He seems much more playable to opposition batsmen compared to earlier years. I'd love to see that glint in his eye again coupled with the aggression . Just havent seen it. Which is why I maintain he is a shadow of his former self. . Indian batsmen look comfortable against him.SA attack is sadly missing the aggression we've seen over the last 30 years.
 

karan_fromthestands

State Captain
I did see the games, and they did struggle for 3 innings until they finally broke through. As solid as they've looked, it's not like they've run away with the game all that often.
Tbf, on these kind of decks you'll have to look at their technique and overall approach over anything else. The pitches offered a lot of assistance and the Indian bowlers were relentless for the most part. The SA batsmen handled the pressure really well and responded very positively. Again, this is an experienced bowling lineup against a young batting unit, all the SA batsmen have looked solid despite the lack of experience.
 

Test Master

Cricket Spectator
People who are saying that SA's batting is weak, I hope you have seen all the games in the series and not going by HLs or scorecards.

Elgar is absolute class. And Keegan Petersen and Bavuma have looked really solid. Petersen has looked the best so far in the series, his batting looks very impressive for someone who is so early in his international career.

They need to sort out Markram's batting position and number 7 batsman, other than that, the batting looks very promising.
Yes there is potential and talent there. But when realistically compared to every other SA batting lineup since readmission it's weak. These lads must now step up like their predecessors and translate that talent into consistency. In order to get a fixed test lineup that will compete with the best, these lyties
need to start performing in their mid twenties.

We need to see young guns come in and impose themselves. Regardless of the attack and conditions.
 
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cricketsavant

U19 12th Man
I disagree on certain aspects. Although the numbers haven't been bad. The presence and pace has been off. He is at a stage where fast bowlers hit their prime which 25 to 27. Seems like his dip has hit sooner than expected. The worrying thing for me is the drop in pace from 145 - 151 to 136 to 139?.... He has lost the fear factor and confidence. His body language says it all. He seems much more playable to opposition batsmen compared to earlier years. I'd love to see that glint in his eye again coupled with the aggression . Just havent seen it. Which is why I maintain he is a shadow of his former self. . Indian batsmen look comfortable against him.SA attack is sadly missing the aggression we've seen over the last 30 years.
I agree, the pace is definitely down, which is a major issue but even the likes of Pollock, Ntini and Steyn lost pace in their mid 20s. They also used that drop in physicality as an opportunity to improve other parts of their arsenal, Steyn in particular started to used the scrambled seam a lot more, Pollock was brilliant with his cutters, especially in ODIs. This does not make any of them worse bowlers, it just makes them smarter and more balanced.

The body language part is just fluff.
 

Apex Predator

State Vice-Captain
SA batting on paper is sure as hell better than current Indian line up in these conditions. SA batting on a bad day gets rolled over for 170-180 odd but Indian batting has potential to get bundled out to a sub 100 total anytime. Pujara Rahane Kohli Pant (in these conditions) can easily rival or out match English lollapses.
 

CricAddict

Cricketer Of The Year
SA batting on paper is sure as hell better than current Indian line up in these conditions. SA batting on a bad day gets rolled over for 170-180 odd but Indian batting has potential to get bundled out to a sub 100 total anytime. Pujara Rahane Kohli Pant (in these conditions) can easily rival or out match English lollapses.
That`s quite hyperbolic. This Indian line-up is still better than the SA line-up at least on paper.
 

Test Master

Cricket Spectator
I agree, the pace is definitely down, which is a major issue but even the likes of Pollock, Ntini and Steyn lost pace in their mid 20s. They also used that drop in physicality as an opportunity to improve other parts of their arsenal, Steyn in particular started to used the scrambled seam a lot more, Pollock was brilliant with his cutters, especially in ODIs. This does not make any of them worse bowlers, it just makes them smarter and more balanced.

The body language part is just fluff.
[/QUO

That's factually incorrect Dale Willem Steyn peaked at the age of 26. He went to India and caused havoc on flat decks. In 2014 in Sri Lanka he bowled consistently at 140 km which saw him get 9 wicket hauls and send greats like Sangakkara and Jayawardene walking with late inswingers bowled at 140km. Dale Steyn had skill and awareness. He knew when to crank it up and when to ease off. He lost pace after breaking his shoulder in 2017 in Aus. The last ball and wicket of that great era was to David Warner. The ball was boweld at exactly 140 km, it was edged by Warner and taken.

I suggest you go back and look at the higlightes of these games and many others you may have missed.

Pollock is the exception, showed good pace and consistency very early on and briefly (under the mentorship of the ATG Malcom Marshal) but was really a medium pacer for MOST of his career.

Insofar as Ntini is concerned I once again beg to differ, the Big Mac marginally slowed down once hitting 29 going into 30.

No where did I state that a loss in pace makes you a bad bowler.

It is in the SA DNA to have at least one bowler bowling express pace with intimidation.

That has been lacking, and that sir is hard to watch, having seeing it for the last 30 years.

Boddy language just fluff???



Body language is important on the field be it a by a batsmen with his chest out , head up imposing himself with a solid defence or attacking cover drive.

A bowler with a deliberate longer follow through whilst staring into the soul of a batsmen.

The fielders with their shoulders out ready stances and quick reactions.

Body language is a big part of the game, many of the greats like Shane Warne , Michael Holding, Ricky Ponting, Sunil Gavaskar and Greame Smith have in yesteryears commentated and discussed the importance of confidence and imposing body language from batsmen, bowlers and fielders
in the game.

If you call that "fluff"..then your knowledge of the wonderful game is questionable.
 
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