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*Official* Group B Discussion - South Africa, Sri Lanka, New Zealand, England

thierry henry

International Captain
Not even that.

There's "playing within the spirit of the game" and there's "not going out of your way to be the world's dodgiest player". All I ask is the latter.
 

Prince EWS

Global Moderator
Chris Mpofu helping Blessing Mahwire celebrate his maiden test 50 in 2005. When we were going to win by 1000 anyway. Probably the most ridiculous of the lot.
Yeah, this was the one that really ground my gears. Murali and Collingwood should have known better but the Mpofu one was dire.
 

Smudge

Hall of Fame Member
International cricket isn't tiddlywinks. Either have your wits about you when you enter the international stage, or **** off.
 

Days of Grace

International Captain
Totally agree.

In the professional era NZ sporting teams have often been accused of lacking the mental toughness and hard edge to compete. Now, that we have someone who likes to take advantage of his opponent's adsent-mindedness, you complain about that too?
 

Zinzan

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If NZ weren't rocked by injuries & had the following side lining up against the Pakistani's I'd give us at least a 50/50 chance tbh.....

McCullum
Ryder
Guptill
Taylor
Styris
Oram
Franklin
Vettori
Mills
Tuffey
Bond
 

Athlai

Not Terrible
Pakistan are so prone to collapsing lately that our near full strength bowling could still win it for us. As long as Guptill or Taylor fire.
 

Athlai

Not Terrible
Would cut Oram from it, and keep Elliott. Other than that I agree totally. The batting order could be changed up but the players are the best we have and there is no need to change it.
 

Zinzan

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100% agree there with that team.

It has actual match winning abilities all the way down
Absolutely, there's no obvious 'below-international standard' player hiding within that XI such as a Broom, Hopkins or Patel
 

Zinzan

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Would cut Oram from it, and keep Elliott. Other than that I agree totally. The batting order could be changed up but the players are the best we have and there is no need to change it.
Totally forgot about Elliott truth be told & wouldn't be massively disappointed if he was selected ahead of Oram assuming all were fit. Even though Oram has copped plenty of justified criticism for his batting in recent times, we mustn't forget he's a damn good ODI bowler as his career econ of 4.39 in over 130 games illustrates.
 

Athlai

Not Terrible
Totally forgot about Elliott truth be told & wouldn't be massively disappointed if he was selected ahead of Oram assuming all were fit. Even though Oram has copped plenty of justified criticism for his batting in recent times, we mustn't forget he's a damn good ODI bowler as his career econ of 4.39 in over 130 games illustrates.
Franklin isn't that much worse an ODI bowler and Elliott is certainly a better batsman so I reckon the team as a whole would benefit more in dropping Oram.
 

Zinzan

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Franklin isn't that much worse an ODI bowler
Disagree here, would back Oram to out-bowl Franklin in ODI's they both played about 7-8 times out of 10. There's quite a big difference between an econ-rate of 4.39 & 5.10 considering both players have played over 60 games, not to mention Oram having both the better ave & strike rate. On the other side of the coin would much rather Franklin as a test bowler than Oram, but that's pretty obvious.

Elliott is certainly a better batsman so I reckon the team as a whole would benefit more in dropping Oram.
Definitely on recent form you'd back his batting over Oram's. That said, I think most of us realise Elliott's outstanding ODI record after 20 odd games - ave 40 bat & 21 ball - does flatter to deceive a little.
 
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Athlai

Not Terrible
Disagree here, would back Oram to out-bowl Franklin in ODI's they both play about 7-8 times out of 10. There's quite a big difference between an econ-rate of 4.39 & 5.10 considering both players have played over 60 games, not to mention Oram having the better ave & econ rate. Incidentally, would much rather Franklin as a test bowler than Oram, but that's pretty obvious.



Definitely on recent form you'd back his batting over Oram's. That said, I think most of us realize Elliott's outstanding ODI record after 20 odd games - ave 40 bat & 21 ball - does flatter to deceive a little.
Oram is definitely more economical and therefore a better ODI bowler but in a 5th bowler capacity I think Franklin is a very decent prospect.
Think Oram has completely lost his eye with the bat as well.
 

Zinzan

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Think Oram has completely lost his eye with the bat as well.
Nah, only thing he's lost is his confidence which typifies his whole career if you study it. Lack of confidence has always been Oram's achilles heel, something even Astle alluded to in his book.

Would be exceedingly surprised if it we're 'the loss of his eye' given he's just turned 31 remembering very few players lose their eye until they're around 33 & older.
 

Athlai

Not Terrible
Nah, only thing he's lost is his confidence which typifies his whole career if you study it. Lack of confidence has always been Oram's achilles heel, something even Astle alluded to in his book.

Would be exceedingly surprised if it we're 'the loss of his eye' given he's just turned 31 remembering very few players lose their eye until they're around 33 & older.
Hope you're right TBH.
 

Flem274*

123/5
Disagree here, would back Oram to out-bowl Franklin in ODI's they both played about 7-8 times out of 10. There's quite a big difference between an econ-rate of 4.39 & 5.10 considering both players have played over 60 games, not to mention Oram having both the better ave & strike rate. On the other side of the coin would much rather Franklin as a test bowler than Oram, but that's pretty obvious.



Definitely on recent form you'd back his batting over Oram's. That said, I think most of us realise Elliott's outstanding ODI record after 20 odd games - ave 40 bat & 21 ball - does flatter to deceive a little.
Still can't deny Elliott performs when it matters, which is a rarity for an NZ player sometimes.

I like the team you listed though, pretty darn good.

Uppercut: As already said, no idea. I'm not sure why we think Hopkins is better than McGlashan but we do for some reason. Pretty harsh considering McGlashan has a fifty against India and has only played a couple of games.
 

thierry henry

International Captain
Totally agree.

In the professional era NZ sporting teams have often been accused of lacking the mental toughness and hard edge to compete. Now, that we have someone who likes to take advantage of his opponent's adsent-mindedness, you complain about that too?
Is this a serious post or some sort of parody of talkback callers and NZ Herald letter to the editor writers?

All I'm saying is McCullum is pretty much the only guy around doing this stuff. So if what he's doing is ok, that must mean every other international cricketer is soft and McCullum is a genius. Pretty far-fetched.
 

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