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***Official*** English Football Season 2019-20

sledger

Spanish_Vicente
It feels like more teams will be happier with the null and void in L1/L2 than those that will be unhappy.

Plus surely it would be harder to argue in court that your unhappy team was definitely going to be promoted when you can't evidence that.
Haha I don't think is what anyone would argue in court tbh. Courts wouldn't be interested in hearing any sorts of arguments along these lines.

Any claim would have to be based around the notion that the decision to do X was procedurally improper (or possibly a breach of contract, I guess).
 

Uppercut

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I thought all options were equally unfair, but by voting themselves promotion but no relegation the L2 clubs managed to find an option even more unfair than any of the others.
 

Lillian Thomson

International Coach
I thought all options were equally unfair, but by voting themselves promotion but no relegation the L2 clubs managed to find an option even more unfair than any of the others.
From what I gather the no relegation from League 2 was based on the National League being abandoned with no provision for play offs. Therefore instead of one down ,two up it would be none down and one up with Barrow replacing Bury to make up the 92 club. As it stands Stevenage would now go down and Barrow and Harrogate would be promoted. I have nothing to say on the rights and wrongs of anything that will be decided because there really aren't any compelling arguments for anything. But that situation of no relegation place in the case of no play offs would appear to be what GIMH is proposing would be fairer for League One/ League Two bottom and top. But on the same basis I would have thought that if the League Two plays offs are abandoned Tranmere still go down and the 4th placed team goes up automatically.
 

cpr

International Coach
I'm surprised it's taken so long tbh. We've had players, teams and nations pull themselves out of the game before. It always got overlooked as a cult game in its early CM days, so could get away with flying under the radar in regard to real names - no fancy graphics meant no one really looked.

Slowly it's had to buy a load of league rights over the years as nations realise how much money is in the game (FM19 shifted over 2m copies), the next step always was the clubs own image rights I suppose.

Doesn't help even pulling the clubs details from the game, the makers have always been really clear about just how to patch around these fake names (christ the guide was always a sticky on their own forums, for those who couldn't figure changing one digit in a really simple file themselves)


Still, shame to see my beloved Man Red do it first
 

Furball

Evil Scotsman
They've always had the odd issue with individual players rights, Oliver Kahn was always Jens Mustermann and in FM19 Niko Kovac is fake named (in fact without booting up my save I'm pretty sure he's Mustermann as well)
 

Matteh

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Do these teams not see how it's effectively free promotion for the brand rather than 'we can make a buck here!'...
 

cpr

International Coach
How is FM free promotion for Man Utd? If you've heard of football, you've almost certainly heard of the club... Then you hear of the game.

It's definitely not an entryway into supporting real teams in major leagues.
 

Matteh

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
How is FM free promotion for Man Utd? If you've heard of football, you've almost certainly heard of the club... Then you hear of the game.

It's definitely not an entryway into supporting real teams in major leagues.
Not sure everyone will have heard of all of the youth graduates, reserves, the minutiae of some of the other stuff. Given how much real scouts actually use the thing, there's potential profit in there buried away too.
 

cpr

International Coach
But none of that is a profitable part of the Man Utd brand they are hilariously trying to protect. Likewise there's no real argument that FM players will miraculously find out about Man Utds u18 team and become a fan (having not heard of Man Utd first). I can't see where the free promotion for the brand comes into it with the game, unless you argue people are actually going to support the club based on in game stats rather than watching the team - It's a fair argument for small teams and lesser leagues, where someone can stumble upon the team and get a connection, but not Man Utd, who's games are shown in every corner of the globe and have a massive media presence. The Utd argument being that FM makes £50m+ in sales a year, using the Man Utd brand as a central part of their product (and not just in a cursory way, it includes all aspects of the clubs set up, stadium, and as accurate depiction of its finances as possible), and uses it to make simulated decisions using the real names of key personnel such as Woodward (I'm sure it upsets him to see mere pixels make better transfer decisions than him).

For the scouting thing, thats a fair point, I've a suspicion that it's possible for clubs do have agreements to using the behind the scenes scouting information at a cost.



To me though, this isn't about 'Football Team sues Video Game', this is 'Football Team strikes out to make it's own agreements outside collective bargaining'. To succeed in removing Man Utd from the PL's pool of licensing agreements would have huge repercussions down the line when it comes to the likes of TV rights. This is a push towards the Spanish models, where Real/Barca call their own shots and bugger the rest. Suddenly its not a crazy bit of profiteering, but a rather cynical play to ****ing the financial balance of the game even more than it is.
 

roseboy64

Cricket Web Content Updater
But none of that is a profitable part of the Man Utd brand they are hilariously trying to protect. Likewise there's no real argument that FM players will miraculously find out about Man Utds u18 team and become a fan (having not heard of Man Utd first). I can't see where the free promotion for the brand comes into it with the game, unless you argue people are actually going to support the club based on in game stats rather than watching the team - It's a fair argument for small teams and lesser leagues, where someone can stumble upon the team and get a connection, but not Man Utd, who's games are shown in every corner of the globe and have a massive media presence. The Utd argument being that FM makes £50m+ in sales a year, using the Man Utd brand as a central part of their product (and not just in a cursory way, it includes all aspects of the clubs set up, stadium, and as accurate depiction of its finances as possible), and uses it to make simulated decisions using the real names of key personnel such as Woodward (I'm sure it upsets him to see mere pixels make better transfer decisions than him).

For the scouting thing, thats a fair point, I've a suspicion that it's possible for clubs do have agreements to using the behind the scenes scouting information at a cost.



To me though, this isn't about 'Football Team sues Video Game', this is 'Football Team strikes out to make it's own agreements outside collective bargaining'. To succeed in removing Man Utd from the PL's pool of licensing agreements would have huge repercussions down the line when it comes to the likes of TV rights. This is a push towards the Spanish models, where Real/Barca call their own shots and bugger the rest. Suddenly its not a crazy bit of profiteering, but a rather cynical play to ****ing the financial balance of the game even more than it is.
It's not a suspicion. In the article I read, it's mentioned that Man Utd's scouts and data teams have linked up with Sports Interactive in the past. Other clubs have as well.
 

grecian

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
They were the best team at Italia 90 as well.
It would be more interesting, in a way, to list who were the few best teams in the comp that ever won these things/ I mean we all agree cup comps aren't the best way to win a best team award, and then there's the questionable refereeing and international favoritism of these tournaments, it really is a crapshoot.

My Jaundiced eye from when I could remember

1982wc Brazil
86 France
90 England
94 Brazil
98 Brazil
02 Brazil
06 Portugal?
10 Holland
14 Argentina
18 France

Yeah an anti-Italy-German bias there nut FFS they are just awful.
 
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grecian

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
No way Holland were the best in 2010. It was Spain and if not then it was Germany.
Holland are always ***ier, it's just fact.

But they won all their group matches and beat brazil which is still a yardstick, gotta say 06/10/15 were the nadirs personally of World Cups for me, 2018 was incredible though, one of the best.
 
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Pothas

Hall of Fame Member
Apart from 2010 when they were horrible. I mean it might just be the final but I can't remember them being good to watch the rest of the time either.
 

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